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11-24-2015, 09:23 AM   #421
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QuoteOriginally posted by drougge Quote
I am saying that you can have both. The important and in fact only point is that setting the aperture using the aperture ring on the lens can still show the selected aperture in the OVF (and EXIF).[COLOR="Silver"]

....
Yes, it's possible to have both but how much cost does one want to add just to duplicate functionality? Personally, I don't think it warrants making a camera more expensive just to add a second means of achieving the same result (display of aperture setting in OVF).

11-24-2015, 10:58 AM   #422
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QuoteOriginally posted by drougge Quote
It's not so much that I miss your point, but that your preference is yours and not something I need to comment on. Of course some people prefer to use controls on the camera, nothing wrong with that. And not really worth commenting on. ("You like that, but I like this, let's fight!" is rather useless.)

But the way you wrote it implies that you think using the aperture ring means not seeing the selected aperture in the finder, or at the very least others may well read your text that way. I don't want people to think that this incorrect inconvenience is how it would have to be.

So let me be super clear: "instant feedback in the viewfinder of any changes" (your words) is something I want when using the aperture ring. And at all other times too of course. And I don't want anyone to think that it wouldn't be possible.
I guess I have a hard time believing anything about using an aperture ring is "instantaneous." Seems like you would have to look at it to use it, in which case seeing it in the viewfinder is redundant. But as I say, I don't use these lenses in any other setting than A.
11-24-2015, 11:15 AM   #423
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Yes, it's possible to have both but how much cost does one want to add just to duplicate functionality? Personally, I don't think it warrants making a camera more expensive just to add a second means of achieving the same result (display of aperture setting in OVF).
I'm not going down the rabbit hole of debating the merits of this again. All I'm trying to achieve here is that people know what it is they say they don't (or do) want.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I guess I have a hard time believing anything about using an aperture ring is "instantaneous." Seems like you would have to look at it to use it, in which case seeing it in the viewfinder is redundant. But as I say, I don't use these lenses in any other setting than A.
Are zoom and focus rings also impossible to use without looking at the rings? I think most people could operate a lens aperture ring easily without looking at it.

Also, in case it matters to anyone, my use of the word instantaneous referred to seeing the aperture in the finder, not the operation of the ring as such. "When the aperture ring is turned, the display in the OVF is instantaneously updated to show the newly selected aperture." (This is as opposed to waiting for you to press a button or something like that.)
11-24-2015, 11:31 AM   #424
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
I'm confused. Are you saying it's more important to be able to see the aperture setting in the OVF or is it more important to be able to set the aperture on the lens instead of the camera?
you can see the aperture setting on manual lenses in any camera with a manual linked flag (match-needle metering) such as a KX or a Judas window (several examples).

11-24-2015, 11:38 AM   #425
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My old practica had a little mirror lens thingy that would reflect the aperture into the VF.
11-24-2015, 12:37 PM   #426
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
My old practica had a little mirror lens thingy that would reflect the aperture into the VF.
That's a good looking camera.
My old Ricoh XR2s had the same little window thingy to show aperture in the VF.

11-24-2015, 02:07 PM   #427
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QuoteOriginally posted by drougge Quote
I am saying that you can have both. The important and in fact only point is that setting the aperture using the aperture ring on the lens can still show the selected aperture in the OVF (and EXIF).

---------- Post added 2015-11-24 at 17:50 ----------



That's an implementation detail. What I never understood is why they choose not to support it on A lenses, since all the information required is in fact available from A lenses too (just in a different format).

(Yes, I know, the 50/1.2 doesn't provide that information. That's no reason to not support it on any A lens.)
If you're talking about the aperture simulator (but this affects K and M lenses too) alright but otherwise, I'm not convinced the camera is able to do what you say it should be able to (in the context of a "crippled" mount).

---------- Post added 24-11-15 at 22:09 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by drougge Quote

Are zoom and focus rings also impossible to use without looking at the rings? I think most people could operate a lens aperture ring easily without looking at it.
Of course, 100% agree.

---------- Post added 24-11-15 at 22:10 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
That's a good looking camera.
My old Ricoh XR2s had the same little window thingy to show aperture in the VF.
XR2S, MX, KX, SuperA etc....
11-24-2015, 02:24 PM   #428
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
My old practica had a little mirror lens thingy that would reflect the aperture into the VF.
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
That's a good looking camera.
My old Ricoh XR2s had the same little window thingy to show aperture in the VF.
That's commonly called a Judas window. Several models of Pentax cameras had them in K, M and A series.

11-24-2015, 02:26 PM   #429
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That's commonly called a Judas window. Several models of Pentax cameras had them in K, M and A series.
Never heard of them before, they look interesting...
11-24-2015, 02:36 PM   #430
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
If you're talking about the aperture simulator (but this affects K and M lenses too) alright but otherwise, I'm not convinced the camera is able to do what you say it should be able to (in the context of a "crippled" mount).
Of course I'm talking about what we have lost to the crippled mount. Or specifically I'm talking about what the MZ-S does, to hopefully prove to those who believe it impossible that it is in fact possible. Not on current cameras, obviously, but on future cameras if Pentax so chooses.

It would also be possible to provide this for A lenses, and if you ask about widest aperture on startup for K/M lenses, but no Pentax camera has done so yet.
11-24-2015, 02:49 PM   #431
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Howdy all, long time lurker, first time poster, anyway:
@thibs: No SuperA did not have a "aperture window", it had a window backlighting the digital lcd readout in the viewfinder.
@monochrome: None of the A series cameras had a "Aperture window",
All of the LX variants had access to a finder with this window, in the M series, only MX had one, and regarding the K series i have no idea...
11-24-2015, 03:08 PM   #432
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QuoteOriginally posted by GreyCloak Quote
Howdy all, long time lurker, first time poster, anyway:
@thibs: No SuperA did not have a "aperture window", it had a window backlighting the digital lcd readout in the viewfinder.
@monochrome: None of the A series cameras had a "Aperture window",
All of the LX variants had access to a finder with this window, in the M series, only MX had one, and regarding the K series i have no idea...
KX, K2DMD, MX, LX/FA-1 (and maybe also FA-1W) Finder. I forgot the SuperA window is a backlight.
11-24-2015, 03:34 PM   #433
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
That's a good looking camera.
My old Ricoh XR2s had the same little window thingy to show aperture in the VF.
Same on my first and still in work order SLR :

11-24-2015, 03:49 PM - 1 Like   #434
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Those of you who don't see the point in having an aperture ring on the lens, which would be most inconvenient?
1. Aperture ring on lens to adjust aperture, front e-dial to adjust shutter, rear e-dial to adjust ISO, or
2. Front e-dial to adjust shutter, rear e-dial to adjust aperture, ISO button + rear/front e-dial to adjust ISO?
11-24-2015, 06:00 PM   #435
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QuoteOriginally posted by deus ursus Quote
Those of you who don't see the point in having an aperture ring on the lens, which would be most inconvenient? 1. Aperture ring on lens to adjust aperture, front e-dial to adjust shutter, rear e-dial to adjust ISO, or 2. Front e-dial to adjust shutter, rear e-dial to adjust aperture, ISO button + rear/front e-dial to adjust ISO?
Not sure about inconvenient, my bodies are all setup like this:
Front e-dial adjusts ISO
Rear e-dial adjust either shutter or aperture, depending on whether you are shooting in Av or Tv.

If you insist on full manual then:
Front e-dial adjusts shutter
Rear e-dial adjusts aperture
ISO button adjusts ISO.

Honestly it is all what you learn to use and a few hours of practice will develop muscle memory for a different configuration if needed. I used a Minolta film camera for many years with the aperture ring and learned how to use that. When I went digital I learned a new trick, no big deal.
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