Pentax K-1 (tentative) exhibited in Salon de la Photo from Paris

repaap · 11-06-2015, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by rawr

I just want to see if there is any evidence of some fancy new overlays, or other magic tricks, in the viewfinder. Might be hard to see if the device isn't powered up, however.

Plus get a feel for the general brightness and size of the VF, if it's at all possible to judge that from about 20cm away and behind glass.

And all of those nose, -fingermarks on the glass when people are reaching for a glimpse through.

Not a Number · 11-06-2015, 12:09 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pathdoc

J
More to the point, see if they'll take the lens off for you and let you look at the mount and inside the mirror box. Before you do this, re-familiarise yourself with the appearance of an uncrippled K-AF mount so you can recognise at a glance whether some of us have had our fondest hopes realised or dashed. The best of all worlds is a de-crippled mount with screwdrive; the worst is no decrippling and also no screwdrive. The suspense is killing us, so for God's sake give us the certainty that will put us out of our misery one way or the other!

Ah, hope springs eternal I suppose.

If Ricoh had intended to let the beast out of the plexiglass cage during the show the would have done so by now.

I think there is more likelihood that Ricoh will release a Full Frame Mirrorless ILC by the end of the year then them ever un-crippling the K-mount. There's little percentage in it for Ricoh. Perhaps if they received a royalty fee or VAT tax every time a M or K series lens was sold they might look into it. The new DFA lens don't have aperture rings on them. And I doubt Ricoh is going to complicate their new lens design and manufacturing process by putting aperture rings on them. And adding aperture ring would be one more reason for 3rd party lens makers not to produce K-mount versions of lenses. They already grumble about the complexities of design the lens barrels that can work with internal electro-mechanical mechanisms and mechanical levers.

It would be foolish for Ricoh to eliminate the screw-drive at this point if they want to entice owners of FA lenses to go Pentax FF DSLR.

Zygonyx · 11-06-2015, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Rico

rawr you can see were the cable attaches to the LCD in the third image on page 7 the one from above front and also in the second image from the side. The LCD is attached to the carriage with two silver circular fasteners. You can see the cable between those to points in those images.

The four metal rods you can also see the end attached to the carriage is fixed in place with the ball end also having a perpendicular rod going through it. The end of the rod attached to the body is just a simple ball that is in a slot it looks like it moves along. One thing I noticed in the NY and Paris displays both cameras the LCD is resting on the stand. Which gives the impression whether or not the design can hold the weight of the screen in place. The camera in Paris was displayed with the screen resting in the same way the images I posted from NY show it resting. It could be a reason why they can not have the public handle it yet.

Thank you for completing infos.

I got this other pict. yesterday taken with my phone....

Sorry i didn't read the whole patent document, but how if the screen had some kind of potential inducted power from the mobile plate where the cable arrives ?
In this configuration, with a smal battery Inside, it could have some autonomy without any direct contact with the body...

Kunzite · 11-06-2015, 01:07 PM

Still insisting on the "wireless LCD" idea? It makes little sense to encumber the camera with a LCD+battery+CPU+memory+wireless connection+inductive charging (instead of a simple LCD+control circuit) just for those who insist to have this made by Pentax, instead of using their smartphone.

The patent was about a smartphone holder AFAIK, so it's in the "using their smartphone" category.

**RobA_Oz** · 11-06-2015, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by bertwert

I agree, but I think it will be highly unlikely for them to re-introduce a non-crippled mount.

Especially as they explicitly ruled it out, a while ago. Of course they could always change their minds about it, but I really doubt it, too.

Transit · 11-06-2015, 01:42 PM

Jeeze that screen arangement looks like is a dogs breakfast...
Keep it simple comes to mind

Zygonyx · 11-06-2015, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Still insisting on the "wireless LCD" idea? It makes little sense to encumber the camera with a LCD+battery+CPU+memory+wireless connection+inductive charging (instead of a simple LCD+control circuit) just for those who insist to have this made by Pentax, instead of using their smartphone.

The patent was about a smartphone holder AFAIK, so it's in the "using their smartphone" category.

Well, that was just speculation.

Originally posted by Transit

Jeeze that screen arangement looks like is a dogs breakfast...
Keep it simple comes to mind

I now realise this "dobble floppy mecanism" had also another advantage : making the vulnerable distal part of the cable - included in the hinge - less exposed to external casualties.

deus ursus · 11-06-2015, 02:30 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Not a Number

It would be foolish for Ricoh to eliminate the screw-drive at this point if they want to entice owners of FA lenses to go Pentax FF DSLR.

While owners of M and K lenses can go screw themselves. Right ...

Class A · 11-06-2015, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

In this configuration, with a smal battery Inside, it could have some autonomy without any direct contact with the body...

AFAIC, it doesn't make much sense to have an elaborate four-rods + hinges articulation mechanism and the ability to completely detach the screen.

If one had detachability, I think holding the screen in various angles would be left to some external device, rather than adding further complication to the camera.

Not a Number · 11-06-2015, 02:55 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Class A

AFAIC, it doesn't make much sense to have an elaborate four-rods + hinges articulation mechanism and the ability to completely detach the screen.

If one had detachability, I think holding the screen in various angles would be left to some external device, rather than adding further complication to the camera.

It would make a whole lot more sense be able to slide the screen out of a frame either from the top or the side. Then you wouldn't have to detach it from multiple points or mess with a fragile cable connector. Just have a connector on the edge. Weather sealing would be a challenge but not too difficult.

---------- Post added 11-06-15 at 02:02 PM ----------

Originally posted by deus ursus

While owners of M and K lenses can go screw themselves. Right ...

Are owners of M and K lenses screwed now by using the green button or DOF preview for stop down metering? Are owners of screwmount lenses screwed now for the same reasons?

Stop down metering is a working solution except for the whiners who complain about a few extra steps.

Be thankful Ricoh is supporting the K-mount at all and not abandoning it as Canon or Minolta did with the FD and MD mounts, respectively.

pacu · 11-06-2015, 03:26 PM - **1 Like**

The most beautifull DSLR ever ! According to my aesthetics of course.

rawr · 11-06-2015, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

It would make a whole lot more sense be able to slide the screen out of a frame either from the top or the side.

Like a cassette.

But it seems more trouble than it is worth, to me, to have a detachable 3 inch screen. It's too small to be useful. Better simply to make it easy (via WiFi) for photographers to use their 5.5 inch smartphones, 7 inch field monitors, 10 inch tablets, 27 inch monitors, or 3D VR headsets

with the camera.

goldenarrow · 11-06-2015, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Like a cassette.

But it seems more trouble than it is worth, to me, to have a detachable 3 inch screen. It's too small to be useful. Better simply to make it easy (via WiFi) for photographers to use their 5.5 inch smartphones, 7 inch field monitors, 10 inch tablets, 27 inch monitors, or 3D VR headsets

with the camera.

I agree. Detachable LCD is just something else to worry about and lose in the field somewhere. It would be better to attach an big cape to put over your head and turn the LCD into a large-format-view-camera-like finder. That would be cool.

Kunzite · 11-06-2015, 05:26 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by deus ursus

While owners of M and K lenses can go screw themselves. Right ...

The K lens series was replaced by the KA series in 1983. That's more than 3 decades ago. OTOH several of the current lenses have screw-drive AF.
It's obviously not the same.

drougge · 11-06-2015, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

The K lens series was replaced by the KA series in 1983. That's more than 3 decades ago. OTOH several of the current lenses have screw-drive AF.
It's obviously not the same.

Of course it's not the same. (Although they certainly didn't stop making non-A lenses until much later.) That doesn't mean there aren't people who would like support for these lenses.

It's worth noting that the Pentax 645 system never had any pre-A lenses, and they still support aperture ring readout on the digital 645 cameras.

11-06-2015, 12:36 PM	#138
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,032 Original Poster	Originally posted by Rico rawr you can see were the cable attaches to the LCD in the third image on page 7 the one from above front and also in the second image from the side. The LCD is attached to the carriage with two silver circular fasteners. You can see the cable between those to points in those images. The four metal rods you can also see the end attached to the carriage is fixed in place with the ball end also having a perpendicular rod going through it. The end of the rod attached to the body is just a simple ball that is in a slot it looks like it moves along. One thing I noticed in the NY and Paris displays both cameras the LCD is resting on the stand. Which gives the impression whether or not the design can hold the weight of the screen in place. The camera in Paris was displayed with the screen resting in the same way the images I posted from NY show it resting. It could be a reason why they can not have the public handle it yet. Thank you for completing infos. I got this other pict. yesterday taken with my phone.... Sorry i didn't read the whole patent document, but how if the screen had some kind of potential inducted power from the mobile plate where the cable arrives ? In this configuration, with a smal battery Inside, it could have some autonomy without any direct contact with the body... Last edited by Zygonyx; 11-06-2015 at 01:03 PM.

11-06-2015, 02:55 PM - 1 Like	#145
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,525	Originally posted by Class A AFAIC, it doesn't make much sense to have an elaborate four-rods + hinges articulation mechanism and the ability to completely detach the screen. If one had detachability, I think holding the screen in various angles would be left to some external device, rather than adding further complication to the camera. It would make a whole lot more sense be able to slide the screen out of a frame either from the top or the side. Then you wouldn't have to detach it from multiple points or mess with a fragile cable connector. Just have a connector on the edge. Weather sealing would be a challenge but not too difficult. ---------- Post added 11-06-15 at 02:02 PM ---------- Originally posted by deus ursus While owners of M and K lenses can go screw themselves. Right ... Are owners of M and K lenses screwed now by using the green button or DOF preview for stop down metering? Are owners of screwmount lenses screwed now for the same reasons? Stop down metering is a working solution except for the whiners who complain about a few extra steps. Be thankful Ricoh is supporting the K-mount at all and not abandoning it as Canon or Minolta did with the FD and MD mounts, respectively. Last edited by Not a Number; 11-06-2015 at 03:08 PM.

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11-06-2015, 11:08 AM	#136
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	Originally posted by rawr I just want to see if there is any evidence of some fancy new overlays, or other magic tricks, in the viewfinder. Might be hard to see if the device isn't powered up, however. Plus get a feel for the general brightness and size of the VF, if it's at all possible to judge that from about 20cm away and behind glass. And all of those nose, -fingermarks on the glass when people are reaching for a glimpse through.

11-06-2015, 12:09 PM - 1 Like	#137
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,525	Originally posted by pathdoc J More to the point, see if they'll take the lens off for you and let you look at the mount and inside the mirror box. Before you do this, re-familiarise yourself with the appearance of an uncrippled K-AF mount so you can recognise at a glance whether some of us have had our fondest hopes realised or dashed. The best of all worlds is a de-crippled mount with screwdrive; the worst is no decrippling and also no screwdrive. The suspense is killing us, so for God's sake give us the certainty that will put us out of our misery one way or the other! Ah, hope springs eternal I suppose. If Ricoh had intended to let the beast out of the plexiglass cage during the show the would have done so by now. I think there is more likelihood that Ricoh will release a Full Frame Mirrorless ILC by the end of the year then them ever un-crippling the K-mount. There's little percentage in it for Ricoh. Perhaps if they received a royalty fee or VAT tax every time a M or K series lens was sold they might look into it. The new DFA lens don't have aperture rings on them. And I doubt Ricoh is going to complicate their new lens design and manufacturing process by putting aperture rings on them. And adding aperture ring would be one more reason for 3rd party lens makers not to produce K-mount versions of lenses. They already grumble about the complexities of design the lens barrels that can work with internal electro-mechanical mechanisms and mechanical levers. It would be foolish for Ricoh to eliminate the screw-drive at this point if they want to entice owners of FA lenses to go Pentax FF DSLR.

11-06-2015, 01:07 PM	#139
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Still insisting on the "wireless LCD" idea? It makes little sense to encumber the camera with a LCD+battery+CPU+memory+wireless connection+inductive charging (instead of a simple LCD+control circuit) just for those who insist to have this made by Pentax, instead of using their smartphone. The patent was about a smartphone holder AFAIK, so it's in the "using their smartphone" category.

11-06-2015, 01:38 PM	#140
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,191	Originally posted by bertwert I agree, but I think it will be highly unlikely for them to re-introduce a non-crippled mount. Especially as they explicitly ruled it out, a while ago. Of course they could always change their minds about it, but I really doubt it, too.

11-06-2015, 01:42 PM	#141
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624	Jeeze that screen arangement looks like is a dogs breakfast... Keep it simple comes to mind

11-06-2015, 01:45 PM	#142
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,032 Original Poster	Originally posted by Kunzite Still insisting on the "wireless LCD" idea? It makes little sense to encumber the camera with a LCD+battery+CPU+memory+wireless connection+inductive charging (instead of a simple LCD+control circuit) just for those who insist to have this made by Pentax, instead of using their smartphone. The patent was about a smartphone holder AFAIK, so it's in the "using their smartphone" category. Well, that was just speculation. Originally posted by Transit Jeeze that screen arangement looks like is a dogs breakfast... Keep it simple comes to mind I now realise this "dobble floppy mecanism" had also another advantage : making the vulnerable distal part of the cable - included in the hinge - less exposed to external casualties.

11-06-2015, 02:30 PM - 1 Like	#143
deus ursus Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Stårheim, Norway Posts: 658	Originally posted by Not a Number It would be foolish for Ricoh to eliminate the screw-drive at this point if they want to entice owners of FA lenses to go Pentax FF DSLR. While owners of M and K lenses can go screw themselves. Right ...

11-06-2015, 02:41 PM	#144
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Zygonyx In this configuration, with a smal battery Inside, it could have some autonomy without any direct contact with the body... AFAIC, it doesn't make much sense to have an elaborate four-rods + hinges articulation mechanism and the ability to completely detach the screen. If one had detachability, I think holding the screen in various angles would be left to some external device, rather than adding further complication to the camera.

11-06-2015, 03:26 PM - 1 Like	#146
pacu Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 91	The most beautifull DSLR ever ! According to my aesthetics of course.

11-06-2015, 04:51 PM	#147
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Not a Number It would make a whole lot more sense be able to slide the screen out of a frame either from the top or the side. Like a cassette. But it seems more trouble than it is worth, to me, to have a detachable 3 inch screen. It's too small to be useful. Better simply to make it easy (via WiFi) for photographers to use their 5.5 inch smartphones, 7 inch field monitors, 10 inch tablets, 27 inch monitors, or 3D VR headsets with the camera.

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11-06-2015, 05:18 PM	#148
goldenarrow Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chicago Suburbs. Photos: Gallery Posts: 501	Originally posted by rawr Like a cassette. But it seems more trouble than it is worth, to me, to have a detachable 3 inch screen. It's too small to be useful. Better simply to make it easy (via WiFi) for photographers to use their 5.5 inch smartphones, 7 inch field monitors, 10 inch tablets, 27 inch monitors, or 3D VR headsets with the camera. I agree. Detachable LCD is just something else to worry about and lose in the field somewhere. It would be better to attach an big cape to put over your head and turn the LCD into a large-format-view-camera-like finder. That would be cool.

11-06-2015, 05:26 PM - 1 Like	#149
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by deus ursus While owners of M and K lenses can go screw themselves. Right ... The K lens series was replaced by the KA series in 1983. That's more than 3 decades ago. OTOH several of the current lenses have screw-drive AF. It's obviously not the same.

11-06-2015, 05:52 PM	#150
drougge Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Malmö Photos: Gallery Posts: 787	Originally posted by Kunzite The K lens series was replaced by the KA series in 1983. That's more than 3 decades ago. OTOH several of the current lenses have screw-drive AF. It's obviously not the same. Of course it's not the same. (Although they certainly didn't stop making non-A lenses until much later.) That doesn't mean there aren't people who would like support for these lenses. It's worth noting that the Pentax 645 system never had any pre-A lenses, and they still support aperture ring readout on the digital 645 cameras.