Pentax K-1 (tentative) exhibited in Salon de la Photo from Paris

**RobA_Oz** · 11-24-2015, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by bertwert

Never heard of them before, they look interesting...

IIRC, even the ES or ESii had them.

Edit: no they didn't – thanks to those who put my faulty memory straight, below

Last edited by RobA_Oz; 11-25-2015 at 07:47 PM.

bertwert · 11-24-2015, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

IIRC, even the ES or ESii had them.

TBH, I've never held a film camera, let alone use one

Cynog Ap Brychan · 11-25-2015, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

IIRC, even the ES or ESii had them.

My ES doesn't have a judas window: can't speak about the ES II, as I do not have one.

Asahiflex · 11-25-2015, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

My ES doesn't have a judas window: can't speak about the ES II, as I do not have one.

The ES II doesn't have one either!

Zygonyx · 11-25-2015, 02:51 AM

Originally posted by deus ursus

Those of you who don't see the point in having an aperture ring on the lens, which would be most inconvenient?
1. Aperture ring on lens to adjust aperture, front e-dial to adjust shutter, rear e-dial to adjust ISO, or
2. Front e-dial to adjust shutter, rear e-dial to adjust aperture, ISO button + rear/front e-dial to adjust ISO?

I see the point in having that ring, though i am used not to use it (lacking) on many of my lenses.
Then i usually take your n°2 option (front dial for shutter, rear dial for aperture, in TAv mode).

**Rondec** · 11-25-2015, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by deus ursus

Those of you who don't see the point in having an aperture ring on the lens, which would be most inconvenient?
1. Aperture ring on lens to adjust aperture, front e-dial to adjust shutter, rear e-dial to adjust ISO, or
2. Front e-dial to adjust shutter, rear e-dial to adjust aperture, ISO button + rear/front e-dial to adjust ISO?

Personally, I don't change iso very frequently. I use the front dial for shutter speed, back dial for aperture and if I need to change the iso, there is an iso button that is very quick to use. With the new camera, there will apparently be three dials making it even easier, I guess.

That said, it is all a matter of taste. I shoot mostly in Av mode and use the rear dial for aperture and the front dial for iso, but I guess if folks find it easier to use an aperture ring, so be it.

**RobA_Oz** · 11-25-2015, 05:20 AM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

The ES II doesn't have one either!

OK, it seems I didn't remember correctly. I must have been thinking of the K2DMD, which was the immediate successor to my ESII.

**monochrome** · 11-25-2015, 05:49 AM

Sure, it would be fun, but I am content to use an old camera when I really, really want to fully use the aperture ring. Otherwise semi-manual is fine.

reh321 · 11-25-2015, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by bertwert

TBH, I've never held a film camera, let alone use one

I have taken many many more pictures using film rather than using digital.
Perhaps because of habits I developed then, I leave base ISO only when I have a really good reason to do so, and I still view base ISO as my primary path to best IQ.
I always settle on shutter-speed and aperture before I start shooting, and I cannot remember a time when I switched with the camera to my eye.

Zygonyx · 11-28-2015, 08:35 PM

Crosspost with the other thread "some FF news" :

Just sayin', here is what wrote one of the two people working in the Paris Pentax shop, about comming Pentax FF (on a French Pentax forum) :

FF, un appareil que personne n'a dû réellement avoir en main, testé jusqu'à présent (d'ailleurs, si il y en a un, qu'il se manifeste !).
(dated 27th november 2015)

Which translates as :

"FF, a body that no-one should really have taken in it's hands, tested until now (btw, if there's one, let him aknowledge that !)."

Soo...

totsmuyco · 11-28-2015, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Crosspost with the other thread "some FF news" :

Just sayin', here is what wrote one of the two people working in the Paris Pentax shop, about comming Pentax FF (on a French Pentax forum) :

FF, un appareil que personne n'a dû réellement avoir en main, testé jusqu'à présent (d'ailleurs, si il y en a un, qu'il se manifeste !).
(dated 27th november 2015)

Which translates as :

"FF, a body that no-one should really have taken in it's hands, tested until now (btw, if there's one, let him aknowledge that !)."

Soo...

Probably Pentax is still dealing with some kinks in the camera's system.

normhead · 11-29-2015, 06:19 AM - **1 Like**

After the body is done, software to make it all work together still has to be written. There is a period between when the body is done and the firmware is complete, and even so, the first version of the software needs to be updated pretty quickly in most cases.

**sholtzma** · 11-29-2015, 11:40 AM

I'm sure there is no way to ensure that a new, complex camera lacks bugs. But surely they can more likely be found in advance on pre-production models if the beta-testers are well-chosen. You want people who will not only take a range of kinds of photos but who will go through every button and menu option, who will tax the camera and examine each photo in minute detail, and who will test out the compatibility of the files in a range of computer programs. It can't be that difficult to find such testers. Wouldn't that approach have caught the sensor "stain"? The mirror flop?

Why this concern with a buggy camera, if so much should be able to be caught in testing?

**jatrax** · 11-29-2015, 12:04 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by sholtzma

Wouldn't that approach have caught the sensor "stain"? The mirror flop?

Not necessarily. Cameras for testers would have come out before the line was running for production, so in the case of the stain the sensors would likely have come from evaluation lots rather than the actual production lot. So in that particular case everything might have looked fine until they received the lot ( or the second lot or whatever) that had the stain on it.

Mirror flop? Maybe, but again using pre-production cameras that used sample or evaluation parts might not give quite the same results as the next lot of parts used when the line starts running. Would not surprise me that part suppliers would hand select parts for evaluation that were rated higher than the "run of production" parts that are actually shipped. My k-5 had about 30,000 exposures on it before I saw the first mirror flop issue, so not something the average beta tester is going to find.

I'm sure beta testing catches a lot of issues but I would think more of the firmware bug variety than actual hardware problems, at least ones that do not manifest until later.

Nicolas06 · 11-29-2015, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by reh321

I have taken many many more pictures using film rather than using digital.
Perhaps because of habits I developed then, I leave base ISO only when I have a really good reason to do so, and I still view base ISO as my primary path to best IQ.
I always settle on shutter-speed and aperture before I start shooting, and I cannot remember a time when I switched with the camera to my eye.

But theses habits are not really that necessary anymore:
- Iso performance is much better now. For anything at iso 800 or less is it almost impossible to see any reduction in quality except looking at 100% crops.
- you can check and change all paremeters at any moment and review them all over the place: top screen, back screen and on OVF.

11-28-2015, 08:35 PM	#445
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033 Original Poster	Crosspost with the other thread "some FF news" : Just sayin', here is what wrote one of the two people working in the Paris Pentax shop, about comming Pentax FF (on a French Pentax forum) : FF, un appareil que personne n'a dû réellement avoir en main, testé jusqu'à présent (d'ailleurs, si il y en a un, qu'il se manifeste !). (dated 27th november 2015) Which translates as : "FF, a body that no-one should really have taken in it's hands, tested until now (btw, if there's one, let him aknowledge that !)." Soo... Last edited by Zygonyx; 11-28-2015 at 08:52 PM.

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11-24-2015, 06:38 PM	#436
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by bertwert Never heard of them before, they look interesting... IIRC, even the ES or ESii had them. Edit: no they didn't – thanks to those who put my faulty memory straight, below Last edited by RobA_Oz; 11-25-2015 at 07:47 PM.

11-24-2015, 06:46 PM	#437
bertwert Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Golden, BC Posts: 15,173	Originally posted by RobA_Oz IIRC, even the ES or ESii had them. TBH, I've never held a film camera, let alone use one

11-25-2015, 12:41 AM	#438
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by RobA_Oz IIRC, even the ES or ESii had them. My ES doesn't have a judas window: can't speak about the ES II, as I do not have one.

11-25-2015, 01:23 AM	#439
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan My ES doesn't have a judas window: can't speak about the ES II, as I do not have one. The ES II doesn't have one either!

11-25-2015, 02:51 AM	#440
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033 Original Poster	Originally posted by deus ursus Those of you who don't see the point in having an aperture ring on the lens, which would be most inconvenient? 1. Aperture ring on lens to adjust aperture, front e-dial to adjust shutter, rear e-dial to adjust ISO, or 2. Front e-dial to adjust shutter, rear e-dial to adjust aperture, ISO button + rear/front e-dial to adjust ISO? I see the point in having that ring, though i am used not to use it (lacking) on many of my lenses. Then i usually take your n°2 option (front dial for shutter, rear dial for aperture, in TAv mode).

11-25-2015, 03:33 AM	#441
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by deus ursus Those of you who don't see the point in having an aperture ring on the lens, which would be most inconvenient? 1. Aperture ring on lens to adjust aperture, front e-dial to adjust shutter, rear e-dial to adjust ISO, or 2. Front e-dial to adjust shutter, rear e-dial to adjust aperture, ISO button + rear/front e-dial to adjust ISO? Personally, I don't change iso very frequently. I use the front dial for shutter speed, back dial for aperture and if I need to change the iso, there is an iso button that is very quick to use. With the new camera, there will apparently be three dials making it even easier, I guess. That said, it is all a matter of taste. I shoot mostly in Av mode and use the rear dial for aperture and the front dial for iso, but I guess if folks find it easier to use an aperture ring, so be it.

11-25-2015, 05:20 AM	#442
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by Asahiflex The ES II doesn't have one either! OK, it seems I didn't remember correctly. I must have been thinking of the K2DMD, which was the immediate successor to my ESII.

11-25-2015, 05:49 AM	#443
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Sure, it would be fun, but I am content to use an old camera when I really, really want to fully use the aperture ring. Otherwise semi-manual is fine.

11-25-2015, 08:24 AM	#444
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by bertwert TBH, I've never held a film camera, let alone use one I have taken many many more pictures using film rather than using digital. Perhaps because of habits I developed then, I leave base ISO only when I have a really good reason to do so, and I still view base ISO as my primary path to best IQ. I always settle on shutter-speed and aperture before I start shooting, and I cannot remember a time when I switched with the camera to my eye.

11-28-2015, 09:59 PM	#446
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	Originally posted by Zygonyx Crosspost with the other thread "some FF news" : Just sayin', here is what wrote one of the two people working in the Paris Pentax shop, about comming Pentax FF (on a French Pentax forum) : FF, un appareil que personne n'a dû réellement avoir en main, testé jusqu'à présent (d'ailleurs, si il y en a un, qu'il se manifeste !). (dated 27th november 2015) Which translates as : "FF, a body that no-one should really have taken in it's hands, tested until now (btw, if there's one, let him aknowledge that !)." Soo... Probably Pentax is still dealing with some kinks in the camera's system.

11-29-2015, 06:19 AM - 1 Like	#447
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	After the body is done, software to make it all work together still has to be written. There is a period between when the body is done and the firmware is complete, and even so, the first version of the software needs to be updated pretty quickly in most cases.

11-29-2015, 11:40 AM	#448
sholtzma Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Salisbury, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,043	I'm sure there is no way to ensure that a new, complex camera lacks bugs. But surely they can more likely be found in advance on pre-production models if the beta-testers are well-chosen. You want people who will not only take a range of kinds of photos but who will go through every button and menu option, who will tax the camera and examine each photo in minute detail, and who will test out the compatibility of the files in a range of computer programs. It can't be that difficult to find such testers. Wouldn't that approach have caught the sensor "stain"? The mirror flop? Why this concern with a buggy camera, if so much should be able to be caught in testing?

11-29-2015, 12:04 PM - 1 Like	#449
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by sholtzma Wouldn't that approach have caught the sensor "stain"? The mirror flop? Not necessarily. Cameras for testers would have come out before the line was running for production, so in the case of the stain the sensors would likely have come from evaluation lots rather than the actual production lot. So in that particular case everything might have looked fine until they received the lot ( or the second lot or whatever) that had the stain on it. Mirror flop? Maybe, but again using pre-production cameras that used sample or evaluation parts might not give quite the same results as the next lot of parts used when the line starts running. Would not surprise me that part suppliers would hand select parts for evaluation that were rated higher than the "run of production" parts that are actually shipped. My k-5 had about 30,000 exposures on it before I saw the first mirror flop issue, so not something the average beta tester is going to find. I'm sure beta testing catches a lot of issues but I would think more of the firmware bug variety than actual hardware problems, at least ones that do not manifest until later.

11-29-2015, 06:00 PM	#450
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by reh321 I have taken many many more pictures using film rather than using digital. Perhaps because of habits I developed then, I leave base ISO only when I have a really good reason to do so, and I still view base ISO as my primary path to best IQ. I always settle on shutter-speed and aperture before I start shooting, and I cannot remember a time when I switched with the camera to my eye. But theses habits are not really that necessary anymore: - Iso performance is much better now. For anything at iso 800 or less is it almost impossible to see any reduction in quality except looking at 100% crops. - you can check and change all paremeters at any moment and review them all over the place: top screen, back screen and on OVF.