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01-28-2016, 12:52 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Either they buy from Nikon (that may refuse) either they have to design it all by themselves.
Or they take a leaf out of Sigma's book, and do a little reverse engineering!

01-28-2016, 06:47 PM   #62
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This is the Achilles heel of Pentax in my humble opinion. If the k-1 isn't up to par with at least the D750, I'm jumping ship. I need a decent, versatile AF. Don't get me wrong, I love Pentax and want to stay, but I'm FF bound, and if this doesn't deliver, I'm not waiting another year(?) or more for them to get it right.
01-28-2016, 07:00 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I would add that great AF doesn't look that expensive to produce once you know how to do it. Nikon has truely great AF in D7100 and D7200 for example, I'am not even sure they could include it in lower end model if they wanted.
Hmmm... perhaps. But the D7000 sucked wrt AF (I used that camera extensively and know it very well). Further, after having used both the D7100 and K-3, I would have to give the nod to the K-3 as being superior to the D7100 wrt AF. Not having used the D7200 I cannot comment. But it does suggest that either A.) Nikon continues to improve and learn from their mistakes or B.) they've deliberately been holding back. I suspect the latter.

YMMV

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01-28-2016, 07:14 PM - 1 Like   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by tpentax Quote
This is the Achilles heel of Pentax in my humble opinion. If the k-1 isn't up to par with at least the D750, I'm jumping ship. I need a decent, versatile AF. Don't get me wrong, I love Pentax and want to stay, but I'm FF bound, and if this doesn't deliver, I'm not waiting another year(?) or more for them to get it right.
I gotta ask, respectfully, are you going to buy the 70~200/2.8 for use to judge the AF on the K-1? Or is your AF use case such that you should just change to Nikon anyway. These aren't sports cameras nor lenses, and never claimed to be.

01-28-2016, 09:28 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by tpentax Quote
If the k-1 isn't up to par with at least the D750
That will be challenging, since the D750 inherits basically the same AF (51-point Multi-CAM 3500 FX AF module) as the D4s and the D810, with a few nice extras like -3 EV AF sensitivity. But I think Pentax can do it.

The building blocks are there in the K-3 - more cross-type AF sensors than the D750, sophisticated 80k metering sensor integrated with the AF, a range of AF hold and tracking options, -3 EV AF sensitivity etc. So I'm sure Pentax can match the D750's capabilities with a little bit more product evolution - more AF points, better tracking algorithms, better AF/metering integration to allow more fluid Nikon-style '3D Tracking' to happen in AF.C.

And of course Pentax are adding lenses with faster AF to coincide with the K-1's arrival. Slow SDM and screw drive lenses contribute about 50% of the perceived deficiencies of Pentax AF performance vs Canikon, I think.
01-29-2016, 12:15 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
That will be challenging, since the D750 inherits basically the same AF (51-point Multi-CAM 3500 FX AF module) as the D4s and the D810, with a few nice extras like -3 EV AF sensitivity. But I think Pentax can do it.

The building blocks are there in the K-3 - more cross-type AF sensors than the D750, sophisticated 80k metering sensor integrated with the AF, a range of AF hold and tracking options, -3 EV AF sensitivity etc. So I'm sure Pentax can match the D750's capabilities with a little bit more product evolution - more AF points, better tracking algorithms, better AF/metering integration to allow more fluid Nikon-style '3D Tracking' to happen in AF.C.

And of course Pentax are adding lenses with faster AF to coincide with the K-1's arrival. Slow SDM and screw drive lenses contribute about 50% of the perceived deficiencies of Pentax AF performance vs Canikon, I think.
By that way that K-3 is already working, I'm not worried a bit. And they have been working with this beast for a long time now(new FF). But then again, I'm not shooting sports or that kind a stuff...still not worried.
01-29-2016, 03:08 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by tpentax Quote
This is the Achilles heel of Pentax in my humble opinion. If the k-1 isn't up to par with at least the D750, I'm jumping ship. I need a decent, versatile AF. Don't get me wrong, I love Pentax and want to stay, but I'm FF bound, and if this doesn't deliver, I'm not waiting another year(?) or more for them to get it right.
A camera is a package, isn't it - it's impossible to make a camera or lens or whatever that's the best at everything because because some of those things fight against each other -fast frame rate fights with high Mp levels, robustness fights with lightness, and so on. Nikon and Canon get over this by having different models aimed at different markets within each band (pro, prosumer, consumer etc) Pentax have traditionally not done this - their strategy has always been to have one camera at each level - and each camera is a compromise, trying to strike the balance between what matters to their customers and what their customers are prepared to pay.I don't personally think that as long as they adopt this strategy their cameras will ever be the best at any one thing, but as a package for non-specialist photographers they will hopefully increasingly zero in on a great product.
01-29-2016, 06:17 AM   #68
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Let's not forget that AF is a recent invention (last 20 years)

Some 30 years ago I was reading magazines in which talented photographers could nail manual focus on such subjects as speeding motorbikes (Camera I think)

O.K. Pre-focussing techniques and split screens help

The point is that focus is an art which demands skill rather than reliance on a machine

01-29-2016, 06:29 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
One more patent concerning autofocus: this one is about using the metering sensor to perform contrast-detect autofocus and therefore increase the precision of the focus performed by the dedicated phase-detect module.

Ricoh ??????AF?AE??????????????????So-net???



Application filed on 30 June 2014, patent granted on 21 January 2016.
For it to work with meaningful accuracy, does that mean the focus screen would have to be high precision (i.e. be able to display thin depth of field?) as the metering sensor would be measuring what's sharp on the focus screen and as a side effect also make manual focusing through the viewfinder more pleasant (even without any advanced focusing aids they could tie in - focus confirmation etc). The metering system could be calibrated with the screen so that you don't have the erratic metering effects you get with changing the stock screen. The big downfall to this is a dark viewfinder in low light situations/slow lenses.
01-29-2016, 06:32 AM - 1 Like   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by tpentax Quote
This is the Achilles heel of Pentax in my humble opinion. If the k-1 isn't up to par with at least the D750, I'm jumping ship. I need a decent, versatile AF. Don't get me wrong, I love Pentax and want to stay, but I'm FF bound, and if this doesn't deliver, I'm not waiting another year(?) or more for them to get it right.
You will get surprise with new AF on pentax fullframe, it will exceed easily D750. Wait and see... just little bit longer
01-29-2016, 06:35 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by afan137 Quote
You will get surprise with new AF on pentax fullframe, it will exceed easily D750. Wait and see... just little bit longer
can I ask you - purely out of my own ignorance, not in a challenging way - how you know that?
01-29-2016, 06:42 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
can I ask you - purely out of my own ignorance, not in a challenging way - how you know that?
This is in Japanese, explanation about the Pentax AF patent. I know few member can read Japanese, but you grab the meaning by google translate: PENTAX??????OVF???????????AF????!? - LOVE PENTAXYZ

Japanese forum quite optimistic with the future of Pentax's autofocus. That is what impression I get.
01-29-2016, 01:03 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by afan137 Quote
This is in Japanese, explanation about the Pentax AF patent. I know few member can read Japanese, but you grab the meaning by google translate: PENTAX??????OVF???????????AF????!? - LOVE PENTAXYZ

Japanese forum quite optimistic with the future of Pentax's autofocus. That is what impression I get.
how wr are sure this will be inside the k-01, this is efficiant in practice and it is any better or worse than what is in D750 ?
01-29-2016, 01:05 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
Hmmm... perhaps. But the D7000 sucked wrt AF (I used that camera extensively and know it very well). Further, after having used both the D7100 and K-3, I would have to give the nod to the K-3 as being superior to the D7100 wrt AF. Not having used the D7200 I cannot comment. But it does suggest that either A.) Nikon continues to improve and learn from their mistakes or B.) they've deliberately been holding back. I suspect the latter.

YMMV

Michael
Does you AF experience speak of still or moving objects? Because K3 is great for still subjects, but this is not where the challenge is...
01-29-2016, 01:16 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Or they take a leaf out of Sigma's book, and do a little reverse engineering!

Patents are public knowledge, you don't need to reverse engineer but you are forbidden to use it without licence.

Sigma can reverse engineer the K-mount and pentax protocol to have their lens work with pentax bodies for interoperability. This is considered legal in most countries.

Preventing sigma to use K-mount is a bit like saying only American cars can be used on American roads while preventing Pentax from using Nikon patent without licence is more like preventing another car maker to steal the design of your new engine and put it in its own cars without even giving you a cent.
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