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11-24-2015, 06:05 AM   #211
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Why would they leave the European market if they are going to continue manufacturing cameras? Certainly it would be very inexpensive to maintain a small presence with minimal advertising support. That's exactly what Pentax does in the United States, I guess because they don't want to invest much money in growing it. But they still sell cameras here (mostly through a couple of retailers) and still make money.
There are some rumors from Samsung NX1 discontinued in Europe? Rumors say 'yes' (update: confirmed in Germany): Digital Photography Review

By the way, the first plans about Q sales were to sell cameras only on Japanese market

11-24-2015, 06:08 AM - 1 Like   #212
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I think Samsung won't leave camera business - they will stay in Korea and Asian markets, maybe Russia, but leave European market.
An announcement such as that from Samsung Germany (not being withdrawn by Andreas Wahlich up to today) is desastrous to global sales.

Therefore, there must have been a Corporate Decsision. To leave markets as they stop to make profit. Which will be all sooner or later.

I remember the days of the Samsung X25 notebook. Which was a stunning product well ahead of their competition. Sold in Europe but not yet in the US. Therefore, I assume that for Samsung, Europe often sets the trend for the US market. Which is funny as normally, it is the other way around

Generally, I am always surprised to observe how easily giant corporations kill entire segments of their business. Like Siemens for cell phones or semiconductor, or IBM for laptops and disks. Samsung to kill their camera business wouldn't surprise me much -- esp. as in the past they did obviously believe to become a market leader.

BTW, that's my biggest concern with players like Panasonic, Sony and frankly, Ricoh. They can kill their camera business any day and never look back.

Last edited by falconeye; 11-24-2015 at 06:18 AM.
11-24-2015, 07:21 AM   #213
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
An announcement such as that from Samsung Germany (not being withdrawn by Andreas Wahlich up to today) is desastrous to global sales.

Therefore, there must have been a Corporate Decsision. To leave markets as they stop to make profit. Which will be all sooner or later.

I remember the days of the Samsung X25 notebook. Which was a stunning product well ahead of their competition. Sold in Europe but not yet in the US. Therefore, I assume that for Samsung, Europe often sets the trend for the US market. Which is funny as normally, it is the other way around

Generally, I am always surprised to observe how easily giant corporations kill entire segments of their business. Like Siemens for cell phones or semiconductor, or IBM for laptops and disks. Samsung to kill their camera business wouldn't surprise me much -- esp. as in the past they did obviously believe to become a market leader.

BTW, that's my biggest concern with players like Panasonic, Sony and frankly, Ricoh. They can kill their camera business any day and never look back.
Yes, I guess that's why Canon and Nikon still have the greatest appeal: they are least likely to lose interest in their camera business.
I was at the wrong place when I had an investment in Olympus zuiko SHG lenses, and Olympus decided to drop the complete 4/3 product line, introduced only 10 years ago (at that moment). I guess I should have gone Canon or Nikon at that moment, but somehow, Pentax appealed to me.
I take Ricoh/Pentax more seriously than Olympus, which was at one time merely plugging their tiny pen cameras, showing an astounding disinterest in a system they had spent 10 years building up, releasing a multitude of expensive and very good lenses. It would be somewhat like Ricoh now stopping all dslr development with vague statements and throwing their whole weight behind the GR. Instead Ricoh?Pentax came with a grounbreaking MF body, and are about to release their first FF body. Quite a difference to the depressing Olympus times.

Chris
11-24-2015, 07:51 AM - 1 Like   #214
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
An announcement such as that from Samsung Germany (not being withdrawn by Andreas Wahlich up to today) is desastrous to global sales.

Therefore, there must have been a Corporate Decsision. To leave markets as they stop to make profit. Which will be all sooner or later.

I remember the days of the Samsung X25 notebook. Which was a stunning product well ahead of their competition.
I use Samsung notebook now and I find it stunning thing....But Samsung closed the notebook's production

11-24-2015, 08:41 AM   #215
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Generally, I am always surprised to observe how easily giant corporations kill entire segments of their business. Like Siemens for cell phones or semiconductor, or IBM for laptops and disks. Samsung to kill their camera business wouldn't surprise me much -- esp. as in the past they did obviously believe to become a market leader.

BTW, that's my biggest concern with players like Panasonic, Sony and frankly, Ricoh. They can kill their camera business any day and never look back.
Well, killing is some kind of an extreme solution, that supposes either the lack of investor, or the lack of motivation for selling a business entity.
It shall remain kind of an exception in today's world.
But yes, big corporations have the financial surface to do so.
11-24-2015, 08:51 AM   #216
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Generally, I am always surprised to observe how easily giant corporations kill entire segments of their business. Like Siemens for cell phones or semiconductor, or IBM for laptops and disks. Samsung to kill their camera business wouldn't surprise me much -- esp. as in the past they did obviously believe to become a market leader.

BTW, that's my biggest concern with players like Panasonic, Sony and frankly, Ricoh. They can kill their camera business any day and never look back.
It is all based on the numbers, there is no sentimentality in keeping a segment of the business. This may have been on the plan for a while.
I am surprised they are not selling division, as where I work units are regularly sold off to other manufacturers with competing products.
It is possible they shopped it around and found no buyers or they do not want to dilute the brand name.
They finally decided to cut off the appendage to stop the bleeding.
11-24-2015, 09:54 AM   #217
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QuoteOriginally posted by crewl1 Quote
They finally decided to cut off the appendage to stop the bleeding.
While losing money on NX every year since introduction would have been awkward for the company, a company capable of investing $10 billion to build one new chip fab wouldn't be over stressed by the costs of doing mirrorless NX, I think. 1 or 2 thousand employees, one or two hundred million $ invested over a decade. Relatively small beer for a colossus like Samsung.

But it certainly looks like they calculated that while NX wasn't technically a bad product line, a large investment in marketing and product development would be required to make NX successful and profitable in future. And that wasn't an investment they could justify, based on their reading of the market.
11-24-2015, 10:45 AM   #218
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Maybe finding someone to buy a camera division isn't so easy today. Maybe some Chinese company would like to have all the technology. I guess Samsung also doesn't want to give their technology away to some company outside Korea.

11-24-2015, 11:40 AM   #219
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
While losing money on NX every year since introduction would have been awkward for the company, a company capable of investing $10 billion to build one new chip fab wouldn't be over stressed by the costs of doing mirrorless NX, I think. 1 or 2 thousand employees, one or two hundred million $ invested over a decade. Relatively small beer for a colossus like Samsung.

But it certainly looks like they calculated that while NX wasn't technically a bad product line, a large investment in marketing and product development would be required to make NX successful and profitable in future. And that wasn't an investment they could justify, based on their reading of the market.
There's a 'Core Businesses' movement among global corporations, wherein they just don't want the distraction of the small entrants in fragmented markets. So they sell off their small business lines to 'consolidators' who build scale, or outright discontinue them (and take the tax write-off).
11-24-2015, 01:51 PM   #220
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
While losing money on NX every year since introduction would have been awkward for the company, a company capable of investing $10 billion to build one new chip fab wouldn't be over stressed by the costs of doing mirrorless NX, I think. 1 or 2 thousand employees, one or two hundred million $ invested over a decade. Relatively small beer for a colossus like Samsung.

But it certainly looks like they calculated that while NX wasn't technically a bad product line, a large investment in marketing and product development would be required to make NX successful and profitable in future. And that wasn't an investment they could justify, based on their reading of the market.
Ultimately an investment is worth it only if there a good ROI. Samsung tried and didn't manage to get much traction despite a (technically) good product line. They also started digital photography when it was booming before the peak of sales in 2012. It must have looked quite promizing a bit like the smartphone market. Now the volume are quite decreasing, there establised players that get most of the sales and the product positionning is not so easy. You not only need a good camera with nice ergonomics but also a large set of lenses and a whole echosystem.

If you don't have something special and are not already in this market, there really no reason to invest here or even to stay.
11-24-2015, 02:13 PM   #221
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On top of already enumerated points, I think many here underestimate the problem of a Korean company selling a division or technology to a Japanese one.
11-24-2015, 05:22 PM   #222
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
On top of already enumerated points, I think many here underestimate the problem of a Korean company selling a division or technology to a Japanese one.
Are there legal restrictions? Does the the Korean government restrict technology transfers? I could understand that the sale of a whole division could be difficult, considering it is unlikely every employee wants to move abroad, but transferring a bunch of patents and blueprints (figuratively speaking) shouldn't be too difficult.
11-24-2015, 06:10 PM - 1 Like   #223
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
Are there legal restrictions? Does the the Korean government restrict technology transfers? I could understand that the sale of a whole division could be difficult, considering it is unlikely every employee wants to move abroad, but transferring a bunch of patents and blueprints (figuratively speaking) shouldn't be too difficult.
Historically there has been a deep and abiding enmity between Korea and Japan - so deep and culturally entrenched that it actually is a very real input in business decisions, even whether to merely sell or lease Korean technology to a Japanese company.

My father wouldn't drive or permit any salesman in his company to drive a Japanese cer. Same sort of deal.
11-24-2015, 08:40 PM   #224
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote

BTW, that's my biggest concern with players like Panasonic, Sony and frankly, Ricoh. They can kill their camera business any day and never look back.
Yep, a family owned business (like, essentially, Sigma, IIRC) can indulge something like the Merrill DP stuff for some time without returns, but a 'normal' company is answerable to shareholders, who don't quite have the same love. :-)
11-24-2015, 10:07 PM   #225
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Historically there has been a deep and abiding enmity between Korea and Japan - so deep and culturally entrenched that it actually is a very real input in business decisions, even whether to merely sell or lease Korean technology to a Japanese company.

My father wouldn't drive or permit any salesman in his company to drive a Japanese cer. Same sort of deal.
Yes, but don't forget the Samsung-Pentax cooperation period as recalled by Mistral75, that showed some evolution had been possible in that respect.
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