[bertwert]

The D4 is almost 4 years old now. The D5 has to be coming soon...

Surprise! Nikon Says It's Developing the D5

[Kunzite]

when i referd to evey one demands i meant every pentaxian who wants pentax full frame not any other brand. who will buy it not those who will complain only. i meant every real pentaxian like me.

Are you saying that people making those demands aren't real pentaxians? For sure, there are real pentaxians who demanded 12MP, stripped down K1000-like DSLRs for pennies, Rube Goldberg-like contraptions with variable mounts and hybrid viewfinder systems, clones of this and that and so on

Making one first FF DSLR and the accompanying lenses is already a challenge big enough for Ricoh Imaging. Making two is even more difficult, and doesn't come close to meeting "every one demands". So we'll have to compromise.

[bxf]

Anyway what is pleace?

"Pleace" is "Please" sometimes when you are not a native English speaker. Some leeway is appropriate here.

[Zygonyx]

It was enough of 2 minutes - pixel peeping in good light...
Come on!
This comparison good for my wife and my 10 years old son

OK, then if i were you, i wouldn't waste my time any longer, and i would already have bought a Sony A7s, and would have adapted my pentax lenses on it.
Unless you are prepared to wait one more year at least, with no insurance to get any K-mount FF under 36Mpix.

[reh321]

It was enough of 2 minutes - pixel peeping in good light...
Come on!
This comparison good for my wife and my 10 years old son

OK, then if i were you, i wouldn't waste my time any longer, and i would already have bought a Sony A7s, and would have adapted my pentax lenses on it.
Unless you are prepared to wait one more year at least, with no insurance to get any K-mount FF under 36Mpix.

Attention:
I went out in a snowstorm today and took a couple of pictures.
I felt totally safe because my lowly, inexpensive K-30 is WR.
The 16MP images are just fine.
I will post them at several sites and be sure to mention that they were taken with a WR Pentax camera.
You may go back to your ritual complaining.

[Zygonyx]

LOL, but this thread is about 24x36, sir ; therefore you may go back to your APS-C threads as well

[gedasst]

Come on, guys
I'm really surprised in Your's naivety...

In Lithuanian photo-forums pentaxist's are and always was respected for excellent technical knowledge. I start thinking, to in other part of world situation is not a same.

Everything, what I'm reading in this post (about good 36Mpix-50Mpix sensors), is about pixel-peeping and pixel-cropping in GOOD daylight.
For landscape and inside studio - YES, more pixels is better, because is enough of light.
But for usually work for money in different situations - weddings, concerts, sport, etc. - situation is NOT a same.

When You need to WORK - in the dusk and rain, in the night, inside church, stadium, or any building (any bad light) - with tele lens and shutter speed not less 1/300s, than You start understanding what is high ISO and really LOW LIGHT. When You working inside buildings with MANY different lights - window, halogen, LED, and Your flash, You start understanding, what RAW is editable and good, and was is bad.

In one Lithuanian photo-forum we have "raw-game": photographer placing worst his RAW file, and many photographers editing and showing own results. Best quality editor wining by voting. Than winner placing new worst and difficult RAW file... This game with RAW files continuing about 7 years. We know very good RAW files of almost every camera from all systems.

If You wanna compare HIGH ISO, don't show to me pictured toys in windows light. Please - use HIGH ISO (3200-12800) in really low light on different WB, than compare same age FF cameras with 16-22Mpix and 36-50Mpix sensors and show to me results.
Than we can talk about FACTS.
Please, please, please...

P.S.
I'm tired to write in english with translator...
My conclusion, with respect to lithuanians pentaxists in this forum, I'll write in my own language. If You are interested - use google translator, how I'm using now:

Dabar skaitau pentaxistų komentarus apie super-gerus 36mpix ir 50mpix sensorių rezultatus, ir susidarau įtarima:
1. Visi USA pentaxistai fotkina tik peizažus ir gėlytes dienos šviesoje, ir nėra traukę spalvų iš šešėlių bažnyčioje, nėra fotografavę NT iš vidaus ar krepšinio rungtynių?
2. Visi šventai tiki reklaminiais bukletais ir užsakomais straipsniais.
3. Lietuva ne veltui vadinama "fotografijos Meka" dar nuo TSRS laikų. Ir lietuviai fotografai yra 10 kartų labiau išprusę techniškai ir teoriškai, nei likusi pasaulio dalis

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Last edited by gedasst; 11-21-2015 at 01:32 PM.

[Matthew Saville]

What's wrong with you guys. Pentax said "Mid thirties" as if there' something besides 36 MP. The guy who handled one briefly says it's 36. Does someone have to club you over the head with a 36 once baseball bat?

Even if the camera is 36 MP, there's still a whole lot of room for it to be a big failure, or a huge success. It could be a hand-me-down A7R sensor, with worse high ISO performance than all current FF bodies on the market, and pre-cooked raw data. Or, oppositely it could be an updated version of the D810 sensor, with a new lower base ISO, record-setting dynamic range, and high ISO performance as good as even the best 24 MP sensors.

36 is just a number, yes. But the other qualities of the sensor is still un-determined.

[philbaum]

Even if the camera is 36 MP, there's still a whole lot of room for it to be a big failure, or a huge success. It could be a hand-me-down A7R sensor, with worse high ISO performance than all current FF bodies on the market, and pre-cooked raw data. Or, oppositely it could be an updated version of the D810 sensor, with a new lower base ISO, record-setting dynamic range, and high ISO performance as good as even the best 24 MP sensors.

36 is just a number, yes. But the other qualities of the sensor is still un-determined.

I think "hand-me-down" sensors are a good thing. Too many new sensors have problems that weren't detected before production and the first reponders just have to live with the problems as they are discovered.

The only problems with the 36mp sensors, as i remember, were that both Nikon and Sony had shutter-shock exhibited at some shutter speed areas like 1/100s. Once they took corrective action with the shutters, no more problems. Plus, Pentax will likely be able to get the sensors at a reduced price and thereby compete in the FF arena with lower cost. Its a win-win situation.

[reh321]

LOL, but this thread is about 24x36, sir ; therefore you may go back to your APS-C threads as well

I will be more direct:

I went from Pentax to Canon in 1995 because of Canon's AF lenses.
I came back to Pentax this year because of Canon's bodies.

People here have experience with Pentax bodies, most of which are APS-C.
Pentax has proven in APS-C that Pentax makes good bodies!

Why are so many people convinced sight-unseen that there will be problems in FF??

BTW - I really really like the design of the new body;
it is so evocative of the designs Pentax used back before every camera had to look like a Canon T-90.
I hope Pentax makes this mirror box a hallmark of all Pentax designs!

[gedasst]

Man, let's be clear... just because you don't get how the stuff is really working.

And You know ?

I don't know, who You are in photography, just can say, who am I...

My name is Gediminas, I'm Lithuanian.
When I was 10 years old boy, in 1988 I've got my first lessons of photography by professional photographer and friend of my father, together with my first "FED-5" rangefinder.
Everything - photographing, developing, printing for many years in black and white I made myself.

In 2002 I become sales manager of digital cameras and digital office equipment in "Alna" company (do You remember thous "HP Photosmarts" ?).
From 2008 I'm member of Lithuanian photo communities and photo-clubs.
In 2009 I start repairing old manual-focus lenses, because in Lithuania is easy to get old Russian optics.

Later I left my job in management and start my own business in photography, color calibration and photo service.
Sometimes I work in team with other photographers, who using FF equipment. Than I rent Nikon/Canon FF.

My printed photographs was published many times, including Lithuanian Parliament ( on inauguration of Lithuanian President in 2013), and Ministry of Transport of Lithuania (right now). My photographs is published in many websites and printed magazines.

I work as photographer, and later as video operator for "Klaipeda Castle Jazz Festive" for two years - in 2014 work in one press team with Martin H.M. Schreiber (see my profile picture). I'm video instructor for biggest Lithuanian scout's organization "Lietuvos skautija" and was one of three video operators for national scouts jamboree in 2013. My filmed video material is already used in 4 full-time documentary videos, and now I work with new video project...

From 2014 I start to give lectures for students of photography in "Vilnius college of Art" about color calibration and photographic equipment.

So...
First:
I'm long time "deep inside" Photography not only like a amateur. And I know pretty good , how stuff working.

Second:
I have responsibility for my words about photography. I can't just trolling, or write what I read in some preview - I'm writing only my own experience.

Third:
All this time I used many cameras, but mostly - Pentax.
I'm editor of "Pentax" group in biggest Lithuanian photography website "eFoto" for ~4 years. I'm creator and admin of Lithuanian pentaxists group on Facebook more than 2 years.
I know lot off good good reasons to have a Pentax. And same know, to Pentax DSLR's today is on two steps bellow Canon/Nikon similar cameras in AF speed and work in Low-Light with High ISO. Its mean - Pentax is not compete, compared with Nikon/Canon for professional work.

That's is reasons, why I still have hope, to new Pentax FF sensor will be not HI-res CMOS, and Pentax will made good jump UP.
Amen.

[reh321]

And same know, to Pentax DSLR's today is on two steps bellow Canon/Nikon similar cameras in AF speed and work in Low-Light with High ISO. Its mean - Pentax is not compete, compared with Nikon/Canon for professional work.

I am surprised that you can place Canon and Nikon in the same sentences. I am quite sure that Canon AF is good in any light, but that is because their lenses are superb.

Every other expert I have heard has said that Canon's sensor development is way behind the Sony products that Pentax uses.

Ultimately, Pentax engineers know more than I do, most likely more than any of us does, but even they cannot make one single product that will be best-of-class for every use. I am guessing, based on past products, that the primary target for this effort will be landscape and portraits (where lighting is good, and dynamic range is important), not poorly-lit situations.

However, I believe, in the words of Sherlock Holmes, “It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

[Newtophotos]

If people are happy with low light performance of 16MP on APS-C than 36MP should be a slight improvement:

K30 sensor is 23.7mm x 15.1mm = 357.87mm^2. With 16.3 megapixels the pixel size is 21.955um^2

FF is roughly 36mm x 24mm = 864mm^2. With roughly 36 megapixels the pixel size is 24um^2

With other advances (no AA filter, maybe (hopefully) BSI, etc,) it should be even better for low light?

[sbh]

Yes, I did a similar calculation, the pixel density would be equal to a 13-14 MP aps-c. Additionally there is more light for the image due to the overall larger area. I guess both adds to low light performance (over the K5 and K3).

[dansamy]

Considering what Ricoh did with the K-3, I think they're probably really trying to give us another great camera in the K-1 FF. I hope that they're successful.