[Nicolas06]

but transferring a bunch of patents and blueprints (figuratively speaking) shouldn't be too difficult.

Actually you can't prevent anybody from using your pattent. That per definition of a pattent. If it is pattented then the description of what it does is readily accessible. You can just ask for compensation and that's not even mandatory.

Many companies likes IBM create a pattent porfolio not to make money on them, enforce them but to protect themselves. If you try to sue them with your pattent, they'll look at all the pattents they have in their porfollio, find a match to the hundred/thousand they have where you are in infrigment with them and sue you in return.

[reh321]

Actually you can't prevent anybody from using your pattent. That per definition of a pattent. If it is pattented then the description of what it does is readily accessible. You can just ask for compensation and that's not even mandatory

I don't know how it works in France, Korea, or Japan.

In the US, you can sue to defend your patent, and if the court upholds your patent the court will require compensation; the cost is such that companies work to avoid infringing on patents held by others.

[RGlasel]

Actually you can't prevent anybody from using your pattent. That per definition of a pattent. If it is pattented then the description of what it does is readily accessible. You can just ask for compensation and that's not even mandatory.

Good luck engaging in international trade if your government adopts those principles. Under the World Trade Organization's (WTO) Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights, patents should be available in WTO member states for any invention, in all fields of technology,[4] and the term of protection available should be a minimum of twenty years.

Your point about the value of a patent portfolio extending beyond the products the patent holder produces and markets is correct, but patents are exclusive rights that prevent everyone else from using the "invention" disclosed in the patent for a fixed period of time. Disclosure is the price of obtaining those exclusivity rights. if the patent holder decides to sit on their invention then competitors must invent a different method to produce a product that accomplishes the same task.

The other consideration in regards to Samsung's patent portfolio is whether it is in Korea's national interest to keep those patents with Korean companies over which the Korean government has jurisdiction. In 2008 the Canadian government prevented the sale of satellite manufacturer MDA to an American company, Alliant Techsystems, in the interests of national sovereignty. The relationship between Canada and the U.S. is much closer and friendlier than between Korea and Japan.

[zapp]

Today I went at a Pentax shop in Paris (and bought a 150-450 ), and discussed about the FF, and here are some rumors:
- the sensor will probably be 36 Mp
- the crop mode can be either manual or automatic
- the prism should be awsome
- a grip will be available (no big surprise here, bit still good to be sure)

I think I didn't forget anything, if so I'll update the post!

There was absolutely no news in this thread from what was already known.
How desperate is this community to beat on no information over many pages in a couple days. And it is not the only post beating something to death that does not exist yet. Now the foto shop in Paris knows more about the camera than anyone else??? Remember the Tamron Rep who just talked away and everyone believed his words, not completely wrong, but no real news. I wonder more why we do not get any reports from different sides with more serious spec information - information you get from beta testers. Does no information from beta testers mean that there are none. Does this imply that there is no (beta) camera?

[Nicolas06]

Good luck engaging in international trade if your government adopts those principles.

China don't really recognise patents. This isn't working too bad for them.

[rawr]

Does no information from beta testers mean that there are none.

It's hard to tell, but you may be right.

[IchabodCrane]

China don't really recognise patents. This isn't working too bad for them.

Any country can ban the sale of a product that violates a patent registered in that country.

[reh321]

China don't really recognise patents. This isn't working too bad for them.

Any country can ban the sale of a product that violates a patent registered in that country.

What most people don't see is the constant struggle in the US between people who are tired of seeing China break business norms and those who are sure that profits from selling to the Chinese masses are just around the same corner they were around ten years ago. The disagreement on trade policy between the Obama administration and all Presidential candidates (Clinton, Sanders, O'Malley) from the same party is one example of that struggle.

[philbaum]

An announcement such as that from Samsung Germany (not being withdrawn by Andreas Wahlich up to today) is desastrous to global sales.

Therefore, there must have been a Corporate Decsision. To leave markets as they stop to make profit. Which will be all sooner or later......

Generally, I am always surprised to observe how easily giant corporations kill entire segments of their business. Like Siemens for cell phones or semiconductor, or IBM for laptops and disks. Samsung to kill their camera business wouldn't surprise me much -- esp. as in the past they did obviously believe to become a market leader.

BTW, that's my biggest concern with players like Panasonic, Sony and frankly, Ricoh. They can kill their camera business any day and never look back.

I think the Samsung decision was a good one for the company and the industry. Its taken Sony a lot of effort to get the traction in the marketplace they have today. Fewer suppliers makes things better for the remaining companies. But in general, i think the photographic industry is built on "shifting sand" at the moment - for 4 reasons:

A. Smart phone camera technology provide all most people need to take pictures of their vacations, family and friends.

B. Prices for "fine art" photographs seems slow and iffy to me. There's so much photography on the market, the value is in the prep, not in the images. Income from stock photo sites, probably is not outstanding considering the supply. The wedding and portrait professionals are probably doing OK - i don't know.

C. Photography clubs are a place where photographers can share, discuss and enjoy the images. At least in my area, they are mostly in decline. A few in higher population areas still seem to be doing ok.

D. Newer technology may threaten traditional photography hardware prices. I'm thinking Light 16 types of inventions - although they have yet to produce a camera for sale. Light's 16-Lens Pocket-Sized L16 Camera Aims To Replace Your Bulky DSLR.

Not sure if i'm correct in my conclusions, thought i would throw it out there.

[RGlasel]

Not sure if i'm correct in my conclusions, thought i would throw it out there.

This is somewhat off topic, but real FF news is pretty scarce, so I'll follow your lead.

A: Agree with this, my wife only brings out her point & shoot for vacations, family reunions and Christmas morning, everything else is recorded with her phone. She is the last P&S user that I know personally. The other camera owners I know treat it like a hobby and don't bring their equipment along unless they intend to dedicate time to taking pictures. Even my son, who can't afford car insurance because he ran up his credit card buying photographic equipment and who would like nothing better than to become a professional photojournalist, uses his smartphone for all his "social" photography.

B: There is a market for "fine art" photography, but it seems to be primarily as part of gallery/framing/art boutiques, and realistically, other than a few "known" artists, anyone, anywhere could be producing the art that the customers of these boutiques are buying as home decor. A proverbial "sweat shop in Vietnam" could flood the market if run by someone who understands this market. The stock photo market is already oversupplied with content and almost all of it is warehoused by a very small number of distributors/agencies. Which doesn't auger well for someone hoping to make a living doing this. Event (mainly weddings) and portrait photography is the only growth market left out there. Barriers to entry for new "professionals" are very low, but it is a service industry, so higher quality professionals should be able to thrive doing this. It's the main reason Pentax hit a home run with the 645Z, in the past a photographer might differentiate herself from the competition by using a Hasselblad, now there is digital MF for less than the price of a new car.

C: Don't belong to one, but the local paper ran a feature on the 50th or 75th anniversary of the local club and there was a comment that current membership is well below what it had been in the past. Not just photography clubs are suffering, service clubs have been in decline for a couple of decades as well and the net result of social media is that people socialize in person less and less.

D: Professional level equipment is priced within reach of hobbyists and hobby photographers are in it for the experience, part of which is the feel of holding a camera, using a viewfinder and building a collection of lenses and accessories. Give it five years (or less), no one will know what a Light 16 was. The hobby market isn't threatened by new ways to take photographs, it is only threatened by people dropping photography as a hobby and the rest of the world is happy enough with the free camera that came with their smartphone they aren't going to spend money to buy a new type of camera.

[Mistral75]

There was absolutely no news in this thread from what was already known.
How desperate is this community to beat on no information over many pages in a couple days. And it is not the only post beating something to death that does not exist yet. Now the foto shop in Paris knows more about the camera than anyone else??? Remember the Tamron Rep who just talked away and everyone believed his words, not completely wrong, but no real news. I wonder more why we do not get any reports from different sides with more serious spec information - information you get from beta testers. Does no information from beta testers mean that there are none. Does this imply that there is no (beta) camera?

Just in case you didn't notice the following:

1/ timautin (the OP) edited his message one day after writing it to make it less specific; the initial version said the following:

Today I went at the Pentax shop in Paris (and bought a 150-450 ), and asked the seller some news about the FF and:
- he tested it for a few minutes last week (Ricoh Europe's manager came to the store)
- the sensor is the Sony 36 Mp
- the crop mode can be either manual or automatic
- the delay is due to some difficulties with the prism, which should be awesome
- a grip will be available (no big surprise here, bit still good to be sure)

I think I didn't forget anything, if so I'll update the post!

2/ The name of "the photo shop in Paris" is 'La Boutique Pentax'. They propose the whole portfolio of current Pentax references and also exhibit a variety of older Pentax high-end equipment, many pieces of which have been lent by Ricoh Imaging Europe. It gives you an idea of how close to Ricoh Imaging Europe they are (Ricoh Imaging's European headquarters are located in France near Paris).

Remember also that the prototype exhibited under glass at the Salon de la Photo is currently touring France to be shown to retailers and central purchasing entities. Those people won't be content with just having a look at a set of metal and plastic parts without being given any specifications.

The manager of La Boutique Pentax is also the owner of a big photo shop in Lyon and the founder of a large network of photo outlets in France called 'Images Photo'. He knows his job and, specifically, how to stir interest in the K-1. This is the reason why he repeats to selected people (less and less selected, actually ) what he has been told by people from Ricoh Imaging Europe: the tentative RRP of K-1 (between €1,999 and €2,199), the number of 24x36 lenses to be launched or announced in 2016 to go with the K-1 (around ten, probably including the 70-200mm f/2.8) and more. Take it with a grain of salt (manipulation is inherent to any 'interested' communication) but it should be close to the truth; time will tell.

As for beta tests, they are probably done by Japanese people under close scrutiny from Ricoh Imaging Japan, hence the lack of communication channels between them and ourselves.

[monochrome]

the number of 24x36 lenses to be launched or announced in 2016 to go with the K-1 (about ten, probably including the 70-200mm f/2.8) and more

Assuming Ricoh wants to announce a moderately complete FF catalog, all at one time, that clause alone warrants going 'dark' on FF information and delaying the 70~210 release so that everything can be announced at one time.

Big Splash effect, like the original 1975 K-mount announcement / releases.

[Wired]

I think the Samsung decision was a good one for the company and the industry. Its taken Sony a lot of effort to get the traction in the marketplace they have today. Fewer suppliers makes things better for the remaining companies. But in general, i think the photographic industry is built on "shifting sand" at the moment - for 4 reasons:

A. Smart phone camera technology provide all most people need to take pictures of their vacations, family and friends.

Agreed. There are many who buy cameras too and just get too lazy to bring them around and they keep using their phone... ie: my wife

B. Prices for "fine art" photographs seems slow and iffy to me. There's so much photography on the market, the value is in the prep, not in the images. Income from stock photo sites, probably is not outstanding considering the supply. The wedding and portrait professionals are probably doing OK - i don't know.

It really depends on your local market. It also depends on the niche you find. The competition is stronger than ever, and the people who adapt their business plans and run it like a business first and art second are doing very well. I've seen wedding photographers turn to shooting soft porn because it pays the bills for example. Schools and youth sports teams seem to still be a decent revenue stream. The few in fashion can do very well. There is a huge demand for photography, it comes down to networking and finding your niche. Think about it... how often do you walk through a mall and see images of product or models wearing product, someone shot those images. Why couldn't it be you?

C. Photography clubs are a place where photographers can share, discuss and enjoy the images. At least in my area, they are mostly in decline. A few in higher population areas still seem to be doing ok.

I'm not really part of any "clubs" but there are a few "facebook groups" that get together quarterly for some meet and shoots. We're mostly portrait people though, so we call them "Meet and Pose" shoots. Usually have a pretty good turn out, but we have makeup and hair artists, stylists, models, and photographers show up. A recent one had more than 100 people!

D. Newer technology may threaten traditional photography hardware prices. I'm thinking Light 16 types of inventions - although they have yet to produce a camera for sale. Light's 16-Lens Pocket-Sized L16 Camera Aims To Replace Your Bulky DSLR.

Not sure if i'm correct in my conclusions, thought i would throw it out there.

As technology advances we will see things change. I'm starting to think mirrorless will overtake DSLR's as the AF technology gets better. The current generation is finally usable by professionals in my opinion, so I can't see what happens in the next generation of advanced mirrorless (like EM1 mk2 and XT-2 cameras for example). There are somethings that until they find new ways to manipulate light and physics that we will be limited too... ie: big honkin lenses for f2.8 70-200mm full frame systems.


It's a great time to be a photographer, or have an interest in photography. There is an abundance of amazing work, it may take a little while to find the true gems, but what is out there is bloody amazing. The technology we have available too us is equally impressive and if you have the pocket book or sponsorships to get you the right tool for the right job all you need is the creativity to let your mind, heart, and soul go wild!

[Zygonyx]

Assuming Ricoh wants to announce a moderately complete FF catalog, all at one time, that clause alone warrants going 'dark' on FF information and delaying the 70~210 release so that everything can be announced at one time.

Big Splash effect, like the original 1975 K-mount announcement / releases.

I Wonder why some people obstinately write 70-210.
please, update

[Mistral75]

Assuming Ricoh wants to announce a moderately complete FF catalog, all at one time, that clause alone warrants going 'dark' on FF information and delaying the 70~210 release so that everything can be announced at one time.

Big Splash effect, like the original 1975 K-mount announcement / releases.

I was told this should include a lot of high-end lenses: revamped versions of the three amigos / princesses, a 85mm f/1.4 and an ultra-fast 50ish.