Pentax FF Teaser Updated

Kunzite · 12-25-2015, 09:30 AM

On the contrary, I'm too rational: mistakes should be corrected. Perhaps you are too emotional, seeing how you're trying to reject the DXOMark figures - instead of double checking them - because you can't 'trust this tests'.

DXOMark is not the only source where I found similar values. For example:
https://www.ephotozine.com/article/nikon-af-s-nikkor-500mm-f-4e-fl-ed-vr-lens-review-28142
"Falloff of illumination towards the corners is well controlled for a lens of this type. At f/4 the corners are 2.2 stops darker than the image centre and visually uniform illumination is achieved with the aperture stopped down to f/8."

All the lenses I mentioned have - according to DXOMark - vignetting levels above 1EV. I don't know what you're trying to do by claiming they don't.

As for your idea of comparing a $12000 lens stopped down 2 stops with the DA 560mm wide open, you should try being fair now and then.

ogl · 12-25-2015, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

On the contrary, I'm too rational: mistakes should be corrected. Perhaps you are too emotional, seeing how you're trying to reject the DXOMark figures - instead of double checking them - because you can't 'trust this tests'.

DXOMark is not the only source where I found similar values. For example:
https://www.ephotozine.com/article/nikon-af-s-nikkor-500mm-f-4e-fl-ed-vr-lens-review-28142
"Falloff of illumination towards the corners is well controlled for a lens of this type. At f/4 the corners are 2.2 stops darker than the image centre and visually uniform illumination is achieved with the aperture stopped down to f/8."

All the lenses I mentioned have - according to DXOMark - vignetting levels above 1EV. I don't know what you're trying to do by claiming they don't.

As for your idea of comparing a $12000 lens stopped down 2 stops with the DA 560mm wide open, you should try being fair now and then.

Is it all you can say?

Man, show me, please, at this wide-opened picture the vignetting level EV2.2 - it's real sample of lens at f4.

https://www.magezinepublishing.com/equipment/images/equipment/AFS-NIKKOR-500...1442393524.jpg

Did you see it?

DA560 is named DA, not DFA. DA means APS-C lens.

Kunzite · 12-25-2015, 03:06 PM

I see; you're not looking for a discussion, but for one of those internet fights. It must be the Christmass spirit

First, I mentioned ephotozine only to show you that DXOMark is not the only site which found vignetting on a super tele (something you claimed it can't possibly happen). I would rather go with the DXOMark findings, unless you can present me good reasons not to (an extreme case of confirmation bias doesn't count). By the way, you should read this:
Vignetting - DxOMark

Oh, and since "We go to slrgears to check real tests at FF cameras ", eat this:
"At the heart of entire test process lies DxO Analyzer"
How we test lenses - SLRgear.com!

Second, my entire point is that lenses like this Nikkor have measurable levels of vignetting in the extreme corners, but in practice they're not an issue - nobody will claim "this is not a FF lens, it vignettes too much". Yet said claim was made for the 560mm.

Third, Pentax just published an uncropped sample of said DA lens and a few others, taken with a K-1 prototype.

tryphon4 · 12-26-2015, 03:18 AM

Originally posted by ogl

DA560 is named DA, not DFA. DA means APS-C lens.

In fact things are much more complicated, it's a question of image circle.
Many DA lenses have been successfully tested with a FF SLR (e.g. DA* 200/2.8 ED [IF] SDM, DA* 300/4 ED [IF] SDM), others (e.g. DA 14/2.8 ED [IF], DA 21/3.2 Limited) are not compatible due to the heavy vignetting.
Regarding DA 560mm F5.6 compatibility was questionable up to now.

Last edited by tryphon4; 12-27-2015 at 11:05 AM.

**RobA_Oz** · 12-26-2015, 04:28 AM

Properly exposed, vignetting values of 2.2 in the corners of an image should generally not be that much of a problem in post-processing, with contemporary sensors, although they could have been a bit more of an issue with film or even earlier more noise-sensitive digital sensors. I wouldn't be surprised if the JPEG in question has been processed in-camera, if not in post, in order to minimise vignetting.

Zygonyx · 12-26-2015, 04:34 AM

Sony does it as well.
Raw and Jpeg.

**Digitalis** · 12-26-2015, 04:39 AM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Sony does it as well.

So do Leica cameras, even the ones with the optimized micro lenses*

*though vignetting is reduced by approximately -0.7ev on average,which brings most lenses into the realm of easy optical corrections. However, that doesn't make much of a difference with lenses like the Noctilux 50mm f/1.0 with a whopping -5.2 EV of vignetting @ f/1.0 in the extreme corners ( it isn't anywhere near that bad on film @ -3.8ev)

Last edited by Digitalis; 12-26-2015 at 05:16 AM.

D1N0 · 12-26-2015, 05:58 AM

Most standard zooms will also become FF from about 35 to 40mm. thus creating an overlap in a range of FOV from 24mm aps-c (when shooting 24mm in crop mode, you might as well zoom in to 35mm and use the full image circle).

totsmuyco · 12-26-2015, 04:18 PM

It would be nice if we will be able to use APSC zooms on the K-1. It would also be nice if they can give us the crop equivalent of the focal length.

**clackers** · 12-26-2015, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

It would be nice if we will be able to use APSC zooms on the K-1. It would also be nice if they can give us the crop equivalent of the focal length.

It's easy for the processor to only use half the frame, Totsmuyco. I'm not aware of a Caninkony FF that doesn't offer this.

You'll get your crop, but lose half your pixels in the crop.

If you can put up with a lot less than a K-3 delivers, fine. ☺

totsmuyco · 12-26-2015, 06:21 PM

Well if the image is less than what I have then, I'll just read about the power of this camera and wear my cameras out and wait for the next APSC flagship. By then, it can probably give photos at low light without noise at ISO 6400. I think I can live with that.

thibs · 12-27-2015, 12:38 AM

Originally posted by clackers

It's easy for the processor to only use half the frame, Totsmuyco. I'm not aware of a Caninkony FF that doesn't offer this.

You'll get your crop, but lose half your pixels in the crop.

If you can put up with a lot less than a K-3 delivers, fine. ☺

A lot less? I don't get it. Why a lot less? Sorry maybe I'm just tired.

**clackers** · 12-27-2015, 01:10 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by thibs

A lot less? I don't get it. Why a lot less? Sorry maybe I'm just tired.

Well, if the FF has a 42Mp sensor, that'll crop to about 18.7Mp, less than my K-S1.

If it has 36Mp, it'll crop to about 16, only equal to my K-30.

My Sony A7 has 24Mp and will crop down to about 10.7, less than my K-x.

Your K-3 will deliver *all 24Mp* to the APS-C frame.

Just making sure that if you buy the FF, you're aware of this!

D1N0 · 12-27-2015, 04:57 AM

Just always shoot in FF mode and use centre weighted lighting. Then you can always make the optimal crop in post.

thibs · 12-27-2015, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

Just always shoot in FF mode and use centre weighted lighting. Then you can always make the optimal crop in post.

Indeed. And this way is more flexible but I'll admit I always prefer to frame. And for this there needsto be a frame (obvious I know) not just a vague idea so I prefer options in the VF, even if the cam shots the whole FF frame and only records the crop in EXIF to be treated at later stage. It'd be fine by me.
I just need the lines. This is strictly my akwardness of course.

The only alternative is Focussing screens with the markings I want but this is unlikely and not flexible at all (and ugly if not unusable if all crop possibilities are marked).

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12-25-2015, 09:30 AM	#481
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	On the contrary, I'm too rational: mistakes should be corrected. Perhaps you are too emotional, seeing how you're trying to reject the DXOMark figures - instead of double checking them - because you can't 'trust this tests'. DXOMark is not the only source where I found similar values. For example: https://www.ephotozine.com/article/nikon-af-s-nikkor-500mm-f-4e-fl-ed-vr-lens-review-28142 "Falloff of illumination towards the corners is well controlled for a lens of this type. At f/4 the corners are 2.2 stops darker than the image centre and visually uniform illumination is achieved with the aperture stopped down to f/8." All the lenses I mentioned have - according to DXOMark - vignetting levels above 1EV. I don't know what you're trying to do by claiming they don't. As for your idea of comparing a $12000 lens stopped down 2 stops with the DA 560mm wide open, you should try being fair now and then.

12-25-2015, 11:47 AM	#482
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Kunzite On the contrary, I'm too rational: mistakes should be corrected. Perhaps you are too emotional, seeing how you're trying to reject the DXOMark figures - instead of double checking them - because you can't 'trust this tests'. DXOMark is not the only source where I found similar values. For example: https://www.ephotozine.com/article/nikon-af-s-nikkor-500mm-f-4e-fl-ed-vr-lens-review-28142 "Falloff of illumination towards the corners is well controlled for a lens of this type. At f/4 the corners are 2.2 stops darker than the image centre and visually uniform illumination is achieved with the aperture stopped down to f/8." All the lenses I mentioned have - according to DXOMark - vignetting levels above 1EV. I don't know what you're trying to do by claiming they don't. As for your idea of comparing a $12000 lens stopped down 2 stops with the DA 560mm wide open, you should try being fair now and then. Is it all you can say? Man, show me, please, at this wide-opened picture the vignetting level EV2.2 - it's real sample of lens at f4. https://www.magezinepublishing.com/equipment/images/equipment/AFS-NIKKOR-500...1442393524.jpg Did you see it? DA560 is named DA, not DFA. DA means APS-C lens.

12-25-2015, 03:06 PM	#483
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I see; you're not looking for a discussion, but for one of those internet fights. It must be the Christmass spirit First, I mentioned ephotozine only to show you that DXOMark is not the only site which found vignetting on a super tele (something you claimed it can't possibly happen). I would rather go with the DXOMark findings, unless you can present me good reasons not to (an extreme case of confirmation bias doesn't count). By the way, you should read this: Vignetting - DxOMark Oh, and since "We go to slrgears to check real tests at FF cameras ", eat this: "At the heart of entire test process lies DxO Analyzer" How we test lenses - SLRgear.com! Second, my entire point is that lenses like this Nikkor have measurable levels of vignetting in the extreme corners, but in practice they're not an issue - nobody will claim "this is not a FF lens, it vignettes too much". Yet said claim was made for the 560mm. Third, Pentax just published an uncropped sample of said DA lens and a few others, taken with a K-1 prototype.

12-26-2015, 03:18 AM	#484
tryphon4 Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Drome, France Posts: 305	Originally posted by ogl DA560 is named DA, not DFA. DA means APS-C lens. In fact things are much more complicated, it's a question of image circle. Many DA lenses have been successfully tested with a FF SLR (e.g. DA* 200/2.8 ED [IF] SDM, DA* 300/4 ED [IF] SDM), others (e.g. DA 14/2.8 ED [IF], DA 21/3.2 Limited) are not compatible due to the heavy vignetting. Regarding DA 560mm F5.6 compatibility was questionable up to now. Last edited by tryphon4; 12-27-2015 at 11:05 AM.

12-26-2015, 04:28 AM	#485
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,200	Properly exposed, vignetting values of 2.2 in the corners of an image should generally not be that much of a problem in post-processing, with contemporary sensors, although they could have been a bit more of an issue with film or even earlier more noise-sensitive digital sensors. I wouldn't be surprised if the JPEG in question has been processed in-camera, if not in post, in order to minimise vignetting.

12-26-2015, 04:34 AM	#486
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Sony does it as well. Raw and Jpeg.

12-26-2015, 04:39 AM	#487
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Zygonyx Sony does it as well. So do Leica cameras, even the ones with the optimized micro lenses* though vignetting is reduced by approximately -0.7ev on average,which brings most lenses into the realm of easy optical corrections. However, that doesn't make much of a difference with lenses like the Noctilux 50mm f/1.0 with a whopping -5.2 EV of vignetting @ f/1.0 in the extreme corners ( it isn't anywhere near that bad on film @ -3.8ev) Last edited by Digitalis; 12-26-2015 at 05:16 AM.*

12-26-2015, 05:58 AM	#488
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Most standard zooms will also become FF from about 35 to 40mm. thus creating an overlap in a range of FOV from 24mm aps-c (when shooting 24mm in crop mode, you might as well zoom in to 35mm and use the full image circle).

12-26-2015, 04:18 PM	#489
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	It would be nice if we will be able to use APSC zooms on the K-1. It would also be nice if they can give us the crop equivalent of the focal length.

12-26-2015, 04:46 PM	#490
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by totsmuyco It would be nice if we will be able to use APSC zooms on the K-1. It would also be nice if they can give us the crop equivalent of the focal length. It's easy for the processor to only use half the frame, Totsmuyco. I'm not aware of a Caninkony FF that doesn't offer this. You'll get your crop, but lose half your pixels in the crop. If you can put up with a lot less than a K-3 delivers, fine. ☺

12-26-2015, 06:21 PM	#491
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	Well if the image is less than what I have then, I'll just read about the power of this camera and wear my cameras out and wait for the next APSC flagship. By then, it can probably give photos at low light without noise at ISO 6400. I think I can live with that.

12-27-2015, 12:38 AM	#492
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by clackers It's easy for the processor to only use half the frame, Totsmuyco. I'm not aware of a Caninkony FF that doesn't offer this. You'll get your crop, but lose half your pixels in the crop. If you can put up with a lot less than a K-3 delivers, fine. ☺ A lot less? I don't get it. Why a lot less? Sorry maybe I'm just tired.

12-27-2015, 01:10 AM - 1 Like	#493
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by thibs A lot less? I don't get it. Why a lot less? Sorry maybe I'm just tired. Well, if the FF has a 42Mp sensor, that'll crop to about 18.7Mp, less than my K-S1. If it has 36Mp, it'll crop to about 16, only equal to my K-30. My Sony A7 has 24Mp and will crop down to about 10.7, less than my K-x. Your K-3 will deliver all 24Mp to the APS-C frame. Just making sure that if you buy the FF, you're aware of this!

12-27-2015, 04:57 AM	#494
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Just always shoot in FF mode and use centre weighted lighting. Then you can always make the optimal crop in post.

12-27-2015, 10:57 AM	#495
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by D1N0 Just always shoot in FF mode and use centre weighted lighting. Then you can always make the optimal crop in post. Indeed. And this way is more flexible but I'll admit I always prefer to frame. And for this there needsto be a frame (obvious I know) not just a vague idea so I prefer options in the VF, even if the cam shots the whole FF frame and only records the crop in EXIF to be treated at later stage. It'd be fine by me. I just need the lines. This is strictly my akwardness of course. The only alternative is Focussing screens with the markings I want but this is unlikely and not flexible at all (and ugly if not unusable if all crop possibilities are marked).