Pentax 645Z scores 101 at DxOMark

zoolander · 01-04-2016, 02:44 AM

WOW it took over a year for DXO to test the 645Z's sensor ......... what a bunch of .......

The only reason they've finally done or released the test, is that dslr's are creeping closer.

DXO is a pile of nonesense. When are we all going to realize we're wasting our time talking about DXO.

Zygonyx · 01-04-2016, 03:05 AM

Not sure that is soon...

FantasticMrFox · 01-04-2016, 02:01 PM

And they still haven't added the 645Z to the main table, the results were only leaked through the Sony RX1 II review. As it stands they still rank the A7R II first.

Zygonyx · 01-04-2016, 02:03 PM

Yeah, i assume time is giving credit to zoolander's skud.
Despite the fact that Ricoh sent them their 645Z only last july... i rekon that for a sensor test specialist, no matter what's going on up, DxO Mark should test EVERYTHING with the same procurement scheme. And chronologically.
As things are (or just seem to hapen from outside), their credit is eroding on a purely commercial basis, which also could entail a lack of confidence in their tests.
They have gone beyond the acceptable limit for sustainable credit.

Last edited by Zygonyx; 01-04-2016 at 02:13 PM.

beholder3 · 01-04-2016, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by FantasticMrFox

And they still haven't added the 645Z to the main table, the results were only leaked through the Sony RX1 II review. As it stands they still rank the A7R II first.

Now, 1,7 years after 645z release a new PhaseOne is out there with a newer sensor (surprise). I bet they will test the PhaseOne soon and then publish the results jointly. That would allow for the well known type of poisonous comments.

**monochrome** · 01-04-2016, 02:47 PM

Estimate how many DxO software licenses they will sell to A7rII owners contrasted with same to 645z owners

Q.E.D.

zoolander · 01-05-2016, 02:53 AM

Originally posted by FantasticMrFox

And they still haven't added the 645Z to the main table, the results were only leaked through the Sony RX1 II review. As it stands they still rank the A7R II first.

And

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Yeah, i assume time is giving credit to zoolander's skud.
Despite the fact that Ricoh sent them their 645Z only last july... i rekon that for a sensor test specialist, no matter what's going on up, DxO Mark should test EVERYTHING with the same procurement scheme. And chronologically.
As things are (or just seem to hapen from outside), their credit is eroding on a purely commercial basis, which also could entail a lack of confidence in their tests.
They have gone beyond the acceptable limit for sustainable credit.

And

Originally posted by beholder3

Now, 1,7 years after 645z release a new PhaseOne is out there with a newer sensor (surprise). I bet they will test the PhaseOne soon and then publish the results jointly. That would allow for the well known type of poisonous comments.

645Z came out in April of 2014 (1.9 years). Apparently DXO gets one 6 months ago - whether they finally asked, or was offered by Pentax is also a question. They could have rented one if they wanted. So to me, its clear DXO don't give a rats about Pentax. There's obviously some commercial arrangement going on with DXO and I believe Nikon ... maybe Canon ..... I don't know but its suspicious. Now as DSLR performance is creeping closer again to medium format, DXO is trying to show Pentax in a poor light. I'm used to seeing this.

Whats going on in the photographic industry is known as "industrial sabotage". You've got sponsored photogs and bodies such as reviewers pushing the brand that sponsor them, its all too blatant and unethical.

I mean years ago I took a look at how DXO ranked all the lenses they ever tested, and virtually every Nikon Lens is sharper than canon lenses ........ I nearly fell out of my seat from laughter ! DXO lens reviews are a pile of garbage, much like most of Photozones reviews. In the early years of Photozone they were ethical and proper, but in the last few years, they've really lost the plot and fudge the Nikon and Canon tests. I'll only look at Ephotozine and Lenstip for independent lens reviews. This industry is filled with unscrupulous and unethical types.

Even if the DXO sensor tests were accurate, then the rest of their trash on their site spoils it. I ask you, if your butcher sold really good beef T-bone steak, but sold other meat labelled as beef but you knew was horse meat, would you ever go back there ?

Same reason why I could care less about DXO and don't go there for any information or products. Its a site with ZERO credibility, and we shouldn't bother yacking about them, and hopefully they'll go away

**Rondec** · 01-05-2016, 03:54 AM - **1 Like**

The 645Z market is pretty small and so, DXO Mark wasn't really interested in spending money to purchase/rent a 645z and prerequisite lenses to do the testing and software development for a medium format module. I can understand that. But someone loans them a camera and lenses and then they sit on the results for several months. That doesn't make sense. People don't buy DXO Mark's software based on where they rank camera sensors. They buy it because it has some really good lens adjustment modules and PRIME noise reduction is some of the best out there. That certainly wouldn't change if the A7r II is ranked number one or number two.

As to their lens rankings, the absolute number is fairly meaningless (as it is with the sensor scores). They break it down into resolution and light transmission and those numbers seem to be fairly accurate. The biggest limitation they have is that they don't seem to test many copies of a given lens (few review sites do) and so numbers from someone like Roger Cicala are probably better.

Maybe there is under the table money going to DXO Mark not to support Pentax products, but I really have a hard time imagining Sony or Nikon caring that much about a camera like the 645z to pay them to keep DXO Mark from supporting it.

Edgar_in_Indy · 01-05-2016, 08:37 AM

I sent a message to DxoMark on the 23rd via their website asking if the 645Z results are forthcoming. Here's the response I received just after 6:00 this morning EST (seems kind of early to be at work responding to emails!):

Hi Edgar,

Many thanks for reaching out to us, and for your interest in DxOMark. For your information, the Pentax 645Z test results are on their way, and should be published withing the next couple of weeks. Thanks in advance for your patience!

Kind regards,

Sophie
DxOMark team

That sounds pretty definite, but I guess we'll see!

Kunzite · 01-05-2016, 08:50 AM

There are only 52 weeks in a year; is that 'a couple'?

Mistral75 · 01-05-2016, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Edgar_in_Indy

I sent a message to DxoMark on the 23rd via their website asking if the 645Z results are forthcoming. Here's the response I received just after 6:00 this morning EST (seems kind of early to be at work responding to emails!):

(...)

DxO is based in France

.

thibs · 01-05-2016, 10:11 AM

And for most French (I disagree but who am I?) a couple always mean 'two'.

Mistral75 · 01-05-2016, 10:22 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by thibs

And for most French (I disagree but who am I?) a couple always mean 'two'.

Three can be kind of nice too

.

Kunzite · 01-05-2016, 11:07 AM

I'm not exactly a religious person, but I vaguely remember there was something about "weeks of years" (i.e. weeks seen as period of 7 years) in the Bible... just to be sure, I have to ask... which kind of weeks are we talking about here?

normhead · 01-05-2016, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

I'm not exactly a religious person, but I vaguely remember there was something about "weeks of years" (i.e. weeks seen as period of 7 years) in the Bible... just to be sure, I have to ask... which kind of weeks are we talking about here?

Thinking about the bible is always confusing.

"That shalt not wear diverse fabrics? " Say what? You mean I'm going to hell if I wear polyester and cotton? Or Rayon and Lycra? Really? Why does that make me a bad person?

The only people who recommend living by the bible, are the same people who will tell you to ignore most of it. ( But they'll tell you which parts are good ( the ones that say give them money ) and which ones are to be ignored. (The ones that say be kind to everyone, not just members of your church.)

Oops we have delved into subjects that shall not be mentioned. My bad.

DxO seems to have become some folks bible. (Hows that for an attempt to get back on topic.)

01-05-2016, 08:37 AM	#144
Edgar_in_Indy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,685	I sent a message to DxoMark on the 23rd via their website asking if the 645Z results are forthcoming. Here's the response I received just after 6:00 this morning EST (seems kind of early to be at work responding to emails!): Hi Edgar, Many thanks for reaching out to us, and for your interest in DxOMark. For your information, the Pentax 645Z test results are on their way, and should be published withing the next couple of weeks. Thanks in advance for your patience! Kind regards, Sophie DxOMark team That sounds pretty definite, but I guess we'll see!

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01-04-2016, 02:44 AM	#136
zoolander Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Gold Coast Photos: Albums Posts: 351	WOW it took over a year for DXO to test the 645Z's sensor ......... what a bunch of ....... The only reason they've finally done or released the test, is that dslr's are creeping closer. DXO is a pile of nonesense. When are we all going to realize we're wasting our time talking about DXO.

01-04-2016, 03:05 AM	#137
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Not sure that is soon...

01-04-2016, 02:01 PM	#138
FantasticMrFox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Munich Posts: 2,339	And they still haven't added the 645Z to the main table, the results were only leaked through the Sony RX1 II review. As it stands they still rank the A7R II first.

01-04-2016, 02:03 PM	#139
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Yeah, i assume time is giving credit to zoolander's skud. Despite the fact that Ricoh sent them their 645Z only last july... i rekon that for a sensor test specialist, no matter what's going on up, DxO Mark should test EVERYTHING with the same procurement scheme. And chronologically. As things are (or just seem to hapen from outside), their credit is eroding on a purely commercial basis, which also could entail a lack of confidence in their tests. They have gone beyond the acceptable limit for sustainable credit. Last edited by Zygonyx; 01-04-2016 at 02:13 PM.

01-04-2016, 02:15 PM	#140
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	Originally posted by FantasticMrFox And they still haven't added the 645Z to the main table, the results were only leaked through the Sony RX1 II review. As it stands they still rank the A7R II first. Now, 1,7 years after 645z release a new PhaseOne is out there with a newer sensor (surprise). I bet they will test the PhaseOne soon and then publish the results jointly. That would allow for the well known type of poisonous comments.

01-04-2016, 02:47 PM	#141
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Estimate how many DxO software licenses they will sell to A7rII owners contrasted with same to 645z owners Q.E.D.

01-05-2016, 02:53 AM	#142
zoolander Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Gold Coast Photos: Albums Posts: 351	Originally posted by FantasticMrFox And they still haven't added the 645Z to the main table, the results were only leaked through the Sony RX1 II review. As it stands they still rank the A7R II first. And Originally posted by Zygonyx Yeah, i assume time is giving credit to zoolander's skud. Despite the fact that Ricoh sent them their 645Z only last july... i rekon that for a sensor test specialist, no matter what's going on up, DxO Mark should test EVERYTHING with the same procurement scheme. And chronologically. As things are (or just seem to hapen from outside), their credit is eroding on a purely commercial basis, which also could entail a lack of confidence in their tests. They have gone beyond the acceptable limit for sustainable credit. And Originally posted by beholder3 Now, 1,7 years after 645z release a new PhaseOne is out there with a newer sensor (surprise). I bet they will test the PhaseOne soon and then publish the results jointly. That would allow for the well known type of poisonous comments. 645Z came out in April of 2014 (1.9 years). Apparently DXO gets one 6 months ago - whether they finally asked, or was offered by Pentax is also a question. They could have rented one if they wanted. So to me, its clear DXO don't give a rats about Pentax. There's obviously some commercial arrangement going on with DXO and I believe Nikon ... maybe Canon ..... I don't know but its suspicious. Now as DSLR performance is creeping closer again to medium format, DXO is trying to show Pentax in a poor light. I'm used to seeing this. Whats going on in the photographic industry is known as "industrial sabotage". You've got sponsored photogs and bodies such as reviewers pushing the brand that sponsor them, its all too blatant and unethical. I mean years ago I took a look at how DXO ranked all the lenses they ever tested, and virtually every Nikon Lens is sharper than canon lenses ........ I nearly fell out of my seat from laughter ! DXO lens reviews are a pile of garbage, much like most of Photozones reviews. In the early years of Photozone they were ethical and proper, but in the last few years, they've really lost the plot and fudge the Nikon and Canon tests. I'll only look at Ephotozine and Lenstip for independent lens reviews. This industry is filled with unscrupulous and unethical types. Even if the DXO sensor tests were accurate, then the rest of their trash on their site spoils it. I ask you, if your butcher sold really good beef T-bone steak, but sold other meat labelled as beef but you knew was horse meat, would you ever go back there ? Same reason why I could care less about DXO and don't go there for any information or products. Its a site with ZERO credibility, and we shouldn't bother yacking about them, and hopefully they'll go away

01-05-2016, 03:54 AM - 1 Like	#143
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	The 645Z market is pretty small and so, DXO Mark wasn't really interested in spending money to purchase/rent a 645z and prerequisite lenses to do the testing and software development for a medium format module. I can understand that. But someone loans them a camera and lenses and then they sit on the results for several months. That doesn't make sense. People don't buy DXO Mark's software based on where they rank camera sensors. They buy it because it has some really good lens adjustment modules and PRIME noise reduction is some of the best out there. That certainly wouldn't change if the A7r II is ranked number one or number two. As to their lens rankings, the absolute number is fairly meaningless (as it is with the sensor scores). They break it down into resolution and light transmission and those numbers seem to be fairly accurate. The biggest limitation they have is that they don't seem to test many copies of a given lens (few review sites do) and so numbers from someone like Roger Cicala are probably better. Maybe there is under the table money going to DXO Mark not to support Pentax products, but I really have a hard time imagining Sony or Nikon caring that much about a camera like the 645z to pay them to keep DXO Mark from supporting it.

01-05-2016, 08:50 AM	#145
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	There are only 52 weeks in a year; is that 'a couple'?

01-05-2016, 09:15 AM	#146
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527 Original Poster	Originally posted by Edgar_in_Indy I sent a message to DxoMark on the 23rd via their website asking if the 645Z results are forthcoming. Here's the response I received just after 6:00 this morning EST (seems kind of early to be at work responding to emails!): (...) DxO is based in France .

01-05-2016, 10:11 AM	#147
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	And for most French (I disagree but who am I?) a couple always mean 'two'.

01-05-2016, 10:22 AM - 1 Like	#148
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527 Original Poster	Originally posted by thibs And for most French (I disagree but who am I?) a couple always mean 'two'. Three can be kind of nice too .

01-05-2016, 11:07 AM	#149
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I'm not exactly a religious person, but I vaguely remember there was something about "weeks of years" (i.e. weeks seen as period of 7 years) in the Bible... just to be sure, I have to ask... which kind of weeks are we talking about here?

01-05-2016, 11:19 AM	#150
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Kunzite I'm not exactly a religious person, but I vaguely remember there was something about "weeks of years" (i.e. weeks seen as period of 7 years) in the Bible... just to be sure, I have to ask... which kind of weeks are we talking about here? Thinking about the bible is always confusing. "That shalt not wear diverse fabrics? " Say what? You mean I'm going to hell if I wear polyester and cotton? Or Rayon and Lycra? Really? Why does that make me a bad person? The only people who recommend living by the bible, are the same people who will tell you to ignore most of it. ( But they'll tell you which parts are good ( the ones that say give them money ) and which ones are to be ignored. (The ones that say be kind to everyone, not just members of your church.) Oops we have delved into subjects that shall not be mentioned. My bad. DxO seems to have become some folks bible. (Hows that for an attempt to get back on topic.)