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01-04-2016, 06:59 PM   #301
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
And of course ultimate shallow deph of field
APSC ISO 100 f/1.4 24mm
36x24 ISO 100 f/1.4 35mm
When you want to isolate a big subject with a WA, there always too much deph of field. If you can't use a tele instead (not enough working distance to have the whole,subject) or if you want the perspective rendering of a WA instead of a tele, then you need a fast WA. But that's a very specific use case.
This is because the lens makers did not put that much effort in making wide angle lenses with large aperture for APS sensors. There is no impossibility of making a 24/1.0 lens for APS having roughly the same size and price as a 35/1.4 lens for FF. But it does not exist.
If you look at Lenses and sensor format you can see that the 23/1.4 for APS made by Fuji is similar to the 35/2.0 for FF made by Nikon or Canon (but more expensive). There is almost no f/1.0 lens for APS, but Mitakon is starting to prove that it is feasible.

01-04-2016, 07:34 PM   #302
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I think this discussion is starting to get ridiculous! Happy with APS-C and dont need FF? Fine for you! In my line of work, there is a BIG difference between FF and APS-C. Even Nikon's old D700 walks all over K-3 II on ISO. Only reason i still are loyal to my contract, is that i really belive in what is coming and Ricoh are real good to me.

I got warned about the stupidity on this forum..too bad i didn't belive it was this bad.

My last post in this thread has been proven true by the locals. I want to point out though that you're largely among hobbyists and enthusiasts on this forum.. as are most forums online.

I doubt many commercial photographers are wasting their time debating fstops or ISO so much.. they are busy securing shoots, shooting, processing photos, or dealing with customers/accounting I suspect. Meanwhile we fiddlefart around in boredom, debating the intricacies of dxo and mtf charts while we wait for the next big thing to come along to discuss to death then abandon and forget it for the next big thing after that.

While I appreciate the news you've provided thus far, I'm really surprised you DO actually bother with the forums. And please don't mention Nikon.. it makes certain locals twitch and form their hands into balls at the very mention of the term here. Soon you'll be running for the hills with a band of angry folk holding Pentax branded pitchforks and shovels run after you. Phew.
01-04-2016, 08:05 PM   #303
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Fine for you! In my line of work, there is a BIG difference between FF and APS-C.

I got warned about the stupidity on this forum..too bad i didn't belive it was this bad.
I guess you should have listened, what's wrong with you?

Let's see, you've insulted the whole forum... time to find the door, or do you really think you're making friends here by being... well, the way you are.
01-04-2016, 09:22 PM - 1 Like   #304
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I guess you should have listened, what's wrong with you?

Let's see, you've insulted the whole forum... time to find the door, or do you really think you're making friends here by being... well, the way you are.
Usually I agree with you ... but this time I don't understand it all, and the parts I do understand I don't agree with. He did not insult the whole forum; I'm a member of this forum, and I certainly don't feel insulted. I was going to say more, but the wiser action is probably just for me to say that there are people here who need a hobby.

01-04-2016, 09:31 PM   #305
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I guess you should have listened, what's wrong with you?

Let's see, you've insulted the whole forum... time to find the door, or do you really think you're making friends here by being... well, the way you are.
I think Kenspo touches a nerve ^^
It was maybe a little bit clumsy to talk about the stupidity of the forum but we could read stupidity all day long in the replies on this forum I guess. The evidence of this is the insensitive way some of us talk to each other, and the most parts of the replies are "IMHO" and opinions lack of wisdom and thinking.
All those gears talks are not so important, some great pictures could be made with very low tech camera but it is very invigorating to discus about gear we like to use and I would like some of us here, spreads light instead of distilating toxic comments ... looking for light is more important in photography than anything else
01-04-2016, 09:41 PM - 2 Likes   #306
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Usually I agree with you ... but this time I don't understand it all, and the parts I do understand I don't agree with. He did not insult the whole forum; I'm a member of this forum, and I certainly don't feel insulted. I was going to say more, but the wiser action is probably just for me to say that there are people here who need a hobby.
Neither do I feel insulted. But perhaps the truth hurts some. I figured we were all allowed our opinions, as long as kept civil. Just because someone mentions Nikon (as a positive) and/or that they think the discussion is turning lame is no reason to tell someone to see their way to the door (as if to leave the forum completely). Come on now!

With that kind of hospitality, I'd hate to see inhospitality!

---------- Post added 01-04-16 at 10:42 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by AOCO Quote
... looking for light is more important in photography than anything else
ah.. what a thought. Beautifully put.
01-04-2016, 09:57 PM - 5 Likes   #307
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Most photo forums have mega-posters who are self-appointed photography experts.They tend to have a posse of friends who agree with their particular opinions. They are generally alpha-dogs who don't like to be disagreed with and they will try to run you off their perceived territory if you challenge or offend them. Internet forums are strange social environments full of lonely isolated people. For some of them it is their only real social outlet. Pentax Forums is their tribe.

Personally I'd rather meet girls and take pictures!
01-04-2016, 10:27 PM   #308
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Neither do I feel insulted. But perhaps the truth hurts some. I figured we were all allowed our opinions, as long as kept civil. Just because someone mentions Nikon (as a positive) and/or that they think the discussion is turning lame is no reason to tell someone to see their way to the door (as if to leave the forum completely)
If someone had to leave every time a discussion turned lame, this Forum would be empty and Adam would feel very lonely.

01-04-2016, 11:04 PM   #309
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
If someone had to leave every time a discussion turned lame, this Forum would be empty and Adam would feel very lonely.
And that would be sad.


Though, if it ever comes to that, I propose we turn it into a trivia game wherein the party needing to leave is given a number of party questions to answer in a certain amount of time. Depending on how many they answer correctly, they may be allowed to stay. If they miss too many though, they are considered the weakest link and are forced to walk the plank into a watery abyss of mutated seabass. Now THAT would net some member accounts!
01-05-2016, 12:44 AM   #310
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ptitboul Quote
This is because the lens makers did not put that much effort in making wide angle lenses with large aperture for APS sensors. There is no impossibility of making a 24/1.0 lens for APS having roughly the same size and price as a 35/1.4 lens for FF. But it does not exist.
If you look at Lenses and sensor format you can see that the 23/1.4 for APS made by Fuji is similar to the 35/2.0 for FF made by Nikon or Canon (but more expensive). There is almost no f/1.0 lens for APS, but Mitakon is starting to prove that it is feasible.
For a DSLR it will not be possible, as the long register distance on DSLR wil prevent a small design on WA/UWA lenses.
A 24mm f/1 lens for APS-C DSLR will probably end up bigger and more expensive than Pentax 25/4 for 645, and it will probably nor perform well on large apertures. The front lens on a 24/1 APS-C lens would have to be extremely large,
Because of this there is not much point in making it, a FF DSLR with a 35/1.2 lens will be cheaper than a lens like this.


It probably be a bit smaller than this 6mm f/2.8 Nikon fisheye though.



There is a reason why you only see very fast WA lenses for mirrorless cameras. They have much shorter register distance so the will not suffer as much of the retrofocus design on this type of lens. If you prioritize shallow DOF for wide angle lenses on DSLR, you will save you some troubles if you choose FF over APS-C.

Last edited by Fogel70; 01-05-2016 at 01:12 AM.
01-05-2016, 01:08 AM   #311
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I guess you should have listened, what's wrong with you?

Let's see, you've insulted the whole forum... time to find the door, or do you really think you're making friends here by being... well, the way you are.
Kenspo's presence and contribution here is appreciated, by some of us (me included). Don't decide on your own that he should leave. And nope, he did not insult the whole forum.
OTOH, that "equivalence" nonsense makes for some utterly pointless and unnecessarily long discussions (I got out of this one for a reason). We can do without that.
01-05-2016, 01:14 AM - 1 Like   #312
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I understand that is not as good for you to use an APSC theses days but so what do you do? Do you have to always have a Pentax while waiting for the FF? Or do you happen to use an FF from another manufacturer in the meantime?

If you can't use anything else than Pentax and you are actually making money from your photos, outside of the Ricoh contract did you notice a relevant drop in income due to lower quality pictures coming from having only an APSC body?
FF was suppose to come a bit earlier then it does. But i know what is happening behind closed doors, so its ok. I can hang in there. Also because Ricoh are good to me. we speak together all the time. I never use other brands atm, because i stay loyal. For me that would be wrong. And it would send the wrong signal. But i've been told i can use whatever i feel i need to do my job.

I haven't had too much drop in income, BUT; i have to work harder, because APS-C doesn't "forgive" small errors like a FF can do. I have to be much more spot on in settings all the time (that i most times have to change every 10-15 seconds). But the biggest problem is, that now i have much less keepers after a gig. Especially pics taken with ISO3200+ and is suppose to be printed bigger (bigger then A3 size). Those pics are ok for small prints and web, but not bigger prints.

With the K-3 II and the new 24-70 i notice i big improvement in AF-C in difficult light, so they are getting there. The FF will be up there with the best ones. So Ricoh/Pentax know what they are doing atm.

I also miss a wider option for smaller gigs and stages. (Nikon FF + 14-24 F/2.8) but i know the coming FF and the 15-30 F/2.8 will be a killer combo.

I have been talking to other brands. They see how much exposure i give Ricoh in this area. But so far, it has been just talks. But i know they are monitoring my situation. Even Leica!! haha! But my belief in what is coming, are so big..so i stay where i am. IF i ever should sign somewhere else, THEN you should worry about the situation

In studio/portraits situations, i dont notice that much difference in my work. And they told me, that i can come and pick up the 645Z whenever i feel i need too. So my "problem" is what i said further up ^^

If you forgive my bad english, i hope this gave some answers
01-05-2016, 01:21 AM   #313
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ptitboul Quote
This is because the lens makers did not put that much effort in making wide angle lenses with large aperture for APS sensors. There is no impossibility of making a 24/1.0 lens for APS having roughly the same size and price as a 35/1.4 lens for FF. But it does not exist.
If you look at Lenses and sensor format you can see that the 23/1.4 for APS made by Fuji is similar to the 35/2.0 for FF made by Nikon or Canon (but more expensive). There is almost no f/1.0 lens for APS, but Mitakon is starting to prove that it is feasible.
Sure this is possible even if complex and expensive, but if you are in the market for ultimate shallow deph of field, you'll buy an FF because the lenses are actually there. That they could be there on APSC but are not there in practice, it is not that interresting.

And this apply too with 85mm f/1.2 vs 50mm f/1.2 too. 50mm f/0.85 are not so common.
01-05-2016, 01:22 AM - 5 Likes   #314
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I guess you should have listened, what's wrong with you?

Let's see, you've insulted the whole forum... time to find the door, or do you really think you're making friends here by being... well, the way you are.
Is it something wrong with me? Because i dont see the point in a discussion? I'm allowed to have a rant here, just as everybody else

I am not here to make friends! I always speak from the heart and i dont sweet talk anything to please you or others. But that said, i have made many nice friends here. So you speak for everyone do you?

And why is it me and not you who should find the door? I've noticed, that you are not that good to make friends here either

But Mr Know It All, if i bother you that much, just ignore my posts
01-05-2016, 02:16 AM - 1 Like   #315
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Only a new update in the FF teaser can take us away from this meaningless vicious cycle of sensor performance. To be true I've also stopped reading this thread because I find it hard to understand and of very little interest the controversy. Everyone knows what he needs for his kind of photography and that doesn't change. Cool down everybody and enjoy your hobby or your profession for some of you!
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