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01-06-2016, 04:30 AM   #361
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
To approximate, yes your 300mm @f/4 and their 450mm f5.6 at same iso and same shutter speed will give comparable results. I don't get your issue here, was to be expected.
So, you're saying I can get comparable results if I use 300mm @f/4 with Pentax vs. 450mm on a full frame camera @f5.6, with the same shutter speed and the same ISO (let's say ISO 800)?

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The key thing is that you can manage to get the sames pictures with a K30 and a DA*300 as they can with a D600 + 150-500 so you spend half the money and lift half the weight. That's already quite a thing I would say.
Are you joking, right? Or do you refer strictly to the fact that you get pretty much the same focal distance with 300mm on K-30 as you get with a full frame at 450mm?

I must do another tests because I must do something wrong since my pictures do not match at all with the settings you recommended.

P.S. I don't know why my text is bolded since I didn't touch the Bold button.


Last edited by Dan Rentea; 01-06-2016 at 04:37 AM.
01-06-2016, 04:42 AM   #362
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No. "Equivalentionists" are saying that you have to close down the aperture and increase ISO, in order to lower your FF camera's performance to APS-C levels
01-06-2016, 04:53 AM   #363
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The key thing is that you can manage to get the sames pictures with a K30 and a DA*300 as they can with a D600 + 150-500 so you spend half the money and lift half the weight. That's already quite a thing I would say.
In theory yes, in practice no. My keepers with the K-3 + DA300 is poor, the reason being the AF is randomly slightly off target and it is enough to spoil the 24Mpixel resolution potential of the sensor. I rented a Nikon D750 to compare, and I have to admit that it works very well, the AF brings you right at the max sharpness of the glass so even with a Tamron 150-600, you get very good result right away. With Pentax, the DA* glass is good, the sensor is good, but the AF system binding with SDM is not so good, so eventually you get good results, but you often have to take a number of refocused shots to get a good one, I often have to refocus a few times to be in focus (even if AF is able to lock). Pentax have a problem with their AF design know how, and it spoils their system. I guess Ricoh should spend the money to hire a few guys from Nikon team in order to get the know how for their AF system.
01-06-2016, 05:09 AM   #364
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It becomes confusing when english is not the first language for everybody and some people starts doing math comparations. And from what Nicolas is saying, K-30 with 300mm f4 and the same ISO and shutter speed as D610 can get the same results (with the aperture being set at f5.6 on D610).

Biz- engineer, forget the Af for a second. Let's presume that Pentax Af is as good as D750's. The image quality from K3 can not be similar with the image quality from D750 if you use the settings recommended by Nicholas, those being:

Pentax K3 with 300mm @f4, ISO 800, 1/400
Nikon D750 with 450mm @ f5,6 and ISO 800, 1/400

Not to mention if you use these settings on K-30 vs D750 or D610.

But I think somewhere I misunderstood something, or Nicolas didn't do some part of his math calculations right.

01-06-2016, 05:50 AM   #365
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
The image quality from K3 can not be similar with the image quality from D750 if you use the settings recommended by Nicholas, those being: Pentax K3 with 300mm @f4, ISO 800, 1/400 Nikon D750 with 450mm @ f5,6 and ISO 800, 1/400
If +1ev of exposure is added in post processing to the D750 image, in theory (not considering lens resolution), the results should be similar. But it compared a prime lens with a zoom, so, obviously, the APSC combo is smaller than the ff combo.

What to compare:
- K-30 + DFA150-450 @300mm f5.6 ISO800
- D610 + Tamron 150-600 @450 f8 ISO1600 (or a 6D+Tamy150-600)

Both cost about the same, have IS, weight about the same, a should deliver similar results. In practice, the FF combo with deliver about 20% more resolution, or if the DoF is not the same for both (use of f5.6 for both), the FF will also have less noise.
01-06-2016, 06:01 AM   #366
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
If +1ev of exposure is added in post processing to the D750 image, in theory (not considering lens resolution), the results should be similar. But it compared a prime lens with a zoom, so, obviously, the APSC combo is smaller than the ff combo.

What to compare:
- K-30 + DFA150-450 @300mm f5.6 ISO800
- D610 + Tamron 150-600 @450 f8 ISO1600 (or a 6D+Tamy150-600)

Both cost about the same, have IS, weight about the same, a should deliver similar results. In practice, the FF combo with deliver about 20% more resolution, or if the DoF is not the same for both (use of f5.6 for both), the FF will also have less noise.
This comparison should be interesting, but not with K-30. K-3 should be included in a test like that.

The problem is that is hard to find or rent a DFA 150-450mm lens where I live. But those math calculations of yours are more real in order to get similar results with both cameras, I agree with you.
01-06-2016, 12:39 PM   #367
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
What to compare:
- K-30 + DFA150-450 @300mm f5.6 ISO800
- D610 + Tamron 150-600 @450 f8 ISO1600 (or a 6D+Tamy150-600)
You want to show anything relevant with the longest zooms available and then offer a comparison at some mid-focal length which nobody uses primarily?
You have to check detail resolution at the longest setting. That's how they will be used.

If your shooting a bird at 5m distance you probably also will want to stop down the lenses a bit to get it all nicely in focus and not only a part of it.
01-06-2016, 01:01 PM   #368
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Ya, but apparently you have a problem with other people who speak from the heart and behave the same as you. You've become another one of those Nikon guys talking about Nikon gear on a Pentax forum, spouting the "my Nikon FF is better than your Pentax K-3" nonsense we've heard so many times before. You guys just don't get it. "We don't care." We are happy getting it done with what we have, we aren't changing brands and if you can't respect that go somewhere else. This is mostly a Pentax users helping other Pentax users forum. Why Pentax thought you could be some kind of ambassador is beyond me.


We want Benjikan back, at least he gave us a great photoshoot that was shot with Pentax gear and published in a major magazine once a month. What exactly is it you're bringing to the table?

You love your Nikon 36x24 and you hope the Pentax is as good. Is that your pitch? That will help Pentax out a lot. What exactly is it you're supposed to do for Pentax again?

SO if you're not here to make friends, that's a good thing, cause you're succeeding.

I've been the first one defending you a couple of times in the past. But, you've crossed the Nikon FF snob line this time.

Lets see who comes to your rescue this time.

Probably all the other "My 20 year old Nikon FF is better than your K-3." clowns.

It's like some guy saying "My 20 year old Mercedes is better than your new Toyota." It doesn't matter if it's true. The only thing being said in that statement is the speaker is solely lacking in social grace.
Give him some slack. This thread is just pointless for 15 pages. At least in put the discussion in a far more funny way !

01-06-2016, 01:02 PM   #369
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
This thread is just pointless for 15 pages.
Only the last 15...?
01-06-2016, 01:03 PM   #370
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
Only the last 15...?
i try to remain polite
01-06-2016, 02:02 PM   #371
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
.

To approximate, yes your 300mm @f/4 and their 450mm f5.6 at same iso and same shutter speed will give comparable results.
???

Nicolas, congratulations, their FF shot is now underexposed by 50 percent.

"Equivalence" is either superficial or as in this case, completely wrong. ☺

Like DXOMark ratings, it's misapplied or poorly understood.
01-06-2016, 02:53 PM   #372
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Did someone force you to read the thread?



Ya, but apparently you have a problem with other people who speak from the heart and behave the same as you. You've become another one of those Nikon guys talking about Nikon gear on a Pentax forum, spouting the "my Nikon FF is better than your Pentax K-3" nonsense we've heard so many times before. You guys just don't get it. "We don't care." We are happy getting it done with what we have, we aren't changing brands and if you can't respect that go somewhere else. This is mostly a Pentax users helping other Pentax users forum. Why Pentax thought you could be some kind of ambassador is beyond me.


We want Benjikan back, at least he gave us a great photoshoot that was shot with Pentax gear and published in a major magazine once a month. What exactly is it you're bringing to the table?

You love your Nikon 36x24 and you hope the Pentax is as good. Is that your pitch? That will help Pentax out a lot. What exactly is it you're supposed to do for Pentax again?

SO if you're not here to make friends, that's a good thing, cause you're succeeding.

I've been the first one defending you a couple of times in the past. But, you've crossed the Nikon FF snob line this time.

Lets see who comes to your rescue this time.

Probably all the other "My 20 year old Nikon FF is better than your K-3." clowns.

It's like some guy saying "My 20 year old Mercedes is better than your new Toyota." It doesn't matter if it's true. The only thing being said in that statement is the speaker is solely lacking in social grace.
You are just funny let us agree to disagree. So can i overlook must of your whining and BS
01-06-2016, 02:58 PM   #373
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
You are just funny let us agree to disagree. So can i overlook must of your whining and BS


I can't remember if I'm right or not, did you shoot Nikon before you got 'ambassadored' by Ricoh?

Also if you can 'lose' a K-3 to me when you send 'em back...
01-06-2016, 04:05 PM - 1 Like   #374
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Hmm.

Norm has chosen and loves Pentax - it's why he's here.

Let me ask you, Ken - if Ricoh stopped paying you, what would you do?

Genuinely interested in your answer.
01-06-2016, 04:11 PM - 1 Like   #375
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HURRY UP RICOH AND UPDATE THE TEASER. I don't know if I can take this ^^^ much longer.
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