K1 pics new update with da lenses this time

bxf · 01-08-2016, 06:50 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ogl

D5 is inaccessible level for Ricoh's engineers

This is the problem statement, ogl. Although you may be right, you are in no position to make such a definitive statement.

**gaweidert** · 01-08-2016, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by ogl

To produce very complex AF system and cover the expenses are rather hard task for so small company as Ricoh.

That's why Ricoh will offer another advantages in K-1 (with good AF (I hope), but not the best AF).

Ricoh is not a small company. They have somewhere near 110,000 employees. The question is how much they want to push the Pentax brand and technology as part of their Ricoh Imaging strategy. I would say that they are doing quite nicely getting a handle on the Pentax product line and as far as I can see, turning it around.

D1N0 · 01-08-2016, 06:55 AM

When Ricoh would make a FF camera that costs 6000 or 7000 dollars then it would probably as good as a D5/1Dx mkII (otherwise why bother

)

Cynog Ap Brychan · 01-08-2016, 06:59 AM - **3 Likes**

To paraphrase Blackadder, "so, something you've never seen is slightly less good than something else you've never seen!"

**Digitalis** · 01-08-2016, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by ogl

If we will see that K-1 has real and steady AF-C it would be real success

I forgot about AF-C on Pentax DSLRs, I so rarely use it. In that case the AF tracking abilities of the D5* will smoke just about everything on the market for years to come. As things stand the D4 and 400mm f/2.8G lock on moving subjects with with uncanny accuracy, even with a 2X extender and the max aperture limited to f/5.6. The 1DX With the EF 200mm f/1.8L is also very fast. This isn't just about AF speed, it is also about customization of the AF module parameters, type of AF points used in the AF array and being able to configure different AF patters to suit the subject. Have none of you ever heard of the circle of fire AF configuration?

There is little point in comparing Canon/Nikon to Pentax - both have very different design philosophies and corporate goals.

*Except for perhaps the D500 which has an inherently wider AF field to work with, and thus will undoubtedly be a favorite among wildlife and BIF photographers.

aurele · 01-08-2016, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

There is little point in comparing Nikon to Pentax - both have very different design philosophies and corporate goals.

indeed. this is the key sentence that was missing in this discussion.

Kunzite · 01-08-2016, 07:18 AM

With their experience, available resources and a more expensive AF module - incorporating its own processor - have little doubt the Nikon's D5 will perform better, at least regarding AF tracking, than the K-1. It's something you have to pay for.
But have Ricoh engineers make a "no-compromise" camera, and they'll get something better as well. IMHO all companies have very capable people (I can look at their product and see that).

**Digitalis** · 01-08-2016, 07:23 AM - **2 Likes**

Just to give my thoughts and perspective on where pentax stands: I actually see Pentax as a competitor to Leica, both are niche brands, both have a long history in 35mm format, both produce excellent primes*, both produce medium format cameras. Both have TTL flash protocols that, annoyingly, aren't supported by major wireless transmitters.

SONY/Olympus/Panasonic/Fuji are all slugging it out trying to get out of the consumer oriented quagmire they have landed face first in. Canon/Nikon are comfortably in the hands of working professionals, and they will bend over backwards as they have done in the past to keep things that way. Both companies seek to continue competing against each other, as if they tried anything else, they will probably end up going the way of Hasselblad.

*though some of the zooms from pentax are laughable by Leica standards.

D1N0 · 01-08-2016, 07:31 AM

Well maybe Pentax will take O-gps1 support out of the protocol since they are now building gps into camera's. That would probably help compatibility.

ogl · 01-08-2016, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by gaweidert

Ricoh is not a small company. They have somewhere near 110,000 employees.

Do you really think that all this people work in photo division?

We should remember that Pentax Imaging Corp. had approx. 1,700 employees before sale to Ricoh.

---------- Post added 01-08-2016 at 07:43 AM ----------

Originally posted by D1N0

When Ricoh would make a FF camera that costs 6000 or 7000 dollars then it would probably as good as a D5/1Dx mkII (otherwise why bother

)

Good point.

**Digitalis** · 01-08-2016, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by gaweidert

Ricoh is not a small company. They have somewhere near 110,000 employees.

Originally posted by ogl

Do you really think that all this people work in photo division?

Furthermore, how many of these employees have the correct expertise to work on digital imaging systems or optical design? If you put too many people onto a project the likelihood increases that said project will end up in development hell now, we have all been waiting a long for the Pentax K-1 to become more than just vaporware, you don't want the project to be thrown back into cold storage again do you?

normhead · 01-08-2016, 07:48 AM

How soon people forget, the K-5 pretty much blew away every other APS-c on the planet in DR and some other features. At that point Pentax engineers came up with a camera that was simply the best at what it did. There is simply no reason to say Pentax engineers can't do that again, especially since they already did it once.

Pixel shifting again has the ability to push Pentax into a region that will be unmatched in other systems.

Saying Pentax can't compete simply ignores the past, and does nothing to prevent them from doing it again in the future. Pentax has never produced one camera that was better at everything than every other camera, but then, neither has anyone else. However, it's almost a given, Pentax is going to produce a camera that's better than any other camera a few things even if it's just a better compromise in the feature set for some applications, without being top dog in any one of those features.... and that's all you can ask of any camera.

I don't ask for the best at anything or everything. I ask for good enough to be the best at something, and Pentax has always given us that.

bertwert · 01-08-2016, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by ogl

The sales volume of D5 and D500 will be MUCH higher than all Pentax cameras together.

These two cameras are quite specialist cameras...

RonHendriks1966 · 01-08-2016, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Do you really think that all this people work in photo division?

We should remember that Pentax Imaging Corp. had approx. 1,700 employees before sale to Ricoh.

---------- Post added 01-08-2016 at 07:43 AM ----------

Good point.

Ricoh Imaging is a small stand alone company within the bigger Ricoh organisation. They have limited resources on R&D. They have to fund it within their own organisation. In this case the good sales on Theta S would make a good cashflow. Can Pentax have an on par af-module in K-1 as D5/D500? Well I don't think so. Even if they did, there are still no lenses to make up with a fast system as Nikon has to offer. Making the K-1 has more tasks to do. The Shake Reduction system making functional for the bigger and heavier sensor module is likely the biggest one. The new Electric circuit with (probably) new PRIME IV engin and faster writing to cards is also a big job. Improving the af-module is a big task and we will see if adding some kind of tracking was an option to ad this time.

---------- Post added 08-01-16 at 15:55 ----------

Originally posted by normhead

I don't ask for the best at anything or everything. I ask for good enough to be the best at something, and Pentax has always given us that.

This is a very realistic expectation!

Rupert · 01-08-2016, 08:09 AM

I can't contribute much here.....only say that faster and more accurate AF would be a huge step forward. That appears to be the biggest overall complaint about Pentax?

Since that appears of be a matter of expense, it is hard to see how that will come about without prices we are not used to seeing?

Otherwise, I just came back to look at the squirrels in their sample photos....damn fine looking they are!

Regards!

01-08-2016, 07:08 AM	#440
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by ogl If we will see that K-1 has real and steady AF-C it would be real success I forgot about AF-C on Pentax DSLRs, I so rarely use it. In that case the AF tracking abilities of the D5* will smoke just about everything on the market for years to come. As things stand the D4 and 400mm f/2.8G lock on moving subjects with with uncanny accuracy, even with a 2X extender and the max aperture limited to f/5.6. The 1DX With the EF 200mm f/1.8L is also very fast. This isn't just about AF speed, it is also about customization of the AF module parameters, type of AF points used in the AF array and being able to configure different AF patters to suit the subject. Have none of you ever heard of the circle of fire AF configuration? There is little point in comparing Canon/Nikon to Pentax - both have very different design philosophies and corporate goals. Except for perhaps the D500 which has an inherently wider AF field to work with, and thus will undoubtedly be a favorite among wildlife and BIF photographers. Last edited by Digitalis; 01-08-2016 at 07:17 AM.*

01-08-2016, 07:23 AM - 2 Likes	#443
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Just to give my thoughts and perspective on where pentax stands: I actually see Pentax as a competitor to Leica, both are niche brands, both have a long history in 35mm format, both produce excellent primes, both produce medium format cameras. Both have TTL flash protocols that, annoyingly, aren't supported by major wireless transmitters. SONY/Olympus/Panasonic/Fuji are all slugging it out trying to get out of the consumer oriented quagmire they have landed face first in. Canon/Nikon are comfortably in the hands of working professionals, and they will bend over backwards as they have done in the past to keep things that way. Both companies seek to continue competing against each other, as if they tried anything else, they will probably end up going the way of Hasselblad. though some of the zooms from pentax are laughable by Leica standards. Last edited by Digitalis; 01-08-2016 at 07:33 AM.

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01-08-2016, 06:50 AM - 1 Like	#436
bxf Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Lisbon area Posts: 1,660	Originally posted by ogl D5 is inaccessible level for Ricoh's engineers This is the problem statement, ogl. Although you may be right, you are in no position to make such a definitive statement.

01-08-2016, 06:51 AM	#437
gaweidert Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,325	Originally posted by ogl To produce very complex AF system and cover the expenses are rather hard task for so small company as Ricoh. That's why Ricoh will offer another advantages in K-1 (with good AF (I hope), but not the best AF). Ricoh is not a small company. They have somewhere near 110,000 employees. The question is how much they want to push the Pentax brand and technology as part of their Ricoh Imaging strategy. I would say that they are doing quite nicely getting a handle on the Pentax product line and as far as I can see, turning it around.

01-08-2016, 06:55 AM	#438
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	When Ricoh would make a FF camera that costs 6000 or 7000 dollars then it would probably as good as a D5/1Dx mkII (otherwise why bother )

01-08-2016, 06:59 AM - 3 Likes	#439
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	To paraphrase Blackadder, "so, something you've never seen is slightly less good than something else you've never seen!"

01-08-2016, 07:16 AM	#441
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	Originally posted by Digitalis There is little point in comparing Nikon to Pentax - both have very different design philosophies and corporate goals. indeed. this is the key sentence that was missing in this discussion.

01-08-2016, 07:18 AM	#442
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	With their experience, available resources and a more expensive AF module - incorporating its own processor - have little doubt the Nikon's D5 will perform better, at least regarding AF tracking, than the K-1. It's something you have to pay for. But have Ricoh engineers make a "no-compromise" camera, and they'll get something better as well. IMHO all companies have very capable people (I can look at their product and see that).

01-08-2016, 07:31 AM	#444
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Well maybe Pentax will take O-gps1 support out of the protocol since they are now building gps into camera's. That would probably help compatibility.

01-08-2016, 07:40 AM	#445
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by gaweidert Ricoh is not a small company. They have somewhere near 110,000 employees. Do you really think that all this people work in photo division? We should remember that Pentax Imaging Corp. had approx. 1,700 employees before sale to Ricoh. ---------- Post added 01-08-2016 at 07:43 AM ---------- Originally posted by D1N0 When Ricoh would make a FF camera that costs 6000 or 7000 dollars then it would probably as good as a D5/1Dx mkII (otherwise why bother ) Good point.

01-08-2016, 07:47 AM	#446
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by gaweidert Ricoh is not a small company. They have somewhere near 110,000 employees. Originally posted by ogl Do you really think that all this people work in photo division? Furthermore, how many of these employees have the correct expertise to work on digital imaging systems or optical design? If you put too many people onto a project the likelihood increases that said project will end up in development hell now, we have all been waiting a long for the Pentax K-1 to become more than just vaporware, you don't want the project to be thrown back into cold storage again do you?

01-08-2016, 07:48 AM	#447
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	How soon people forget, the K-5 pretty much blew away every other APS-c on the planet in DR and some other features. At that point Pentax engineers came up with a camera that was simply the best at what it did. There is simply no reason to say Pentax engineers can't do that again, especially since they already did it once. Pixel shifting again has the ability to push Pentax into a region that will be unmatched in other systems. Saying Pentax can't compete simply ignores the past, and does nothing to prevent them from doing it again in the future. Pentax has never produced one camera that was better at everything than every other camera, but then, neither has anyone else. However, it's almost a given, Pentax is going to produce a camera that's better than any other camera a few things even if it's just a better compromise in the feature set for some applications, without being top dog in any one of those features.... and that's all you can ask of any camera. I don't ask for the best at anything or everything. I ask for good enough to be the best at something, and Pentax has always given us that.

01-08-2016, 07:52 AM	#448
bertwert Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Golden, BC Posts: 15,172	Originally posted by ogl The sales volume of D5 and D500 will be MUCH higher than all Pentax cameras together. These two cameras are quite specialist cameras...

01-08-2016, 07:52 AM	#449
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by ogl Do you really think that all this people work in photo division? We should remember that Pentax Imaging Corp. had approx. 1,700 employees before sale to Ricoh. ---------- Post added 01-08-2016 at 07:43 AM ---------- Good point. Ricoh Imaging is a small stand alone company within the bigger Ricoh organisation. They have limited resources on R&D. They have to fund it within their own organisation. In this case the good sales on Theta S would make a good cashflow. Can Pentax have an on par af-module in K-1 as D5/D500? Well I don't think so. Even if they did, there are still no lenses to make up with a fast system as Nikon has to offer. Making the K-1 has more tasks to do. The Shake Reduction system making functional for the bigger and heavier sensor module is likely the biggest one. The new Electric circuit with (probably) new PRIME IV engin and faster writing to cards is also a big job. Improving the af-module is a big task and we will see if adding some kind of tracking was an option to ad this time. ---------- Post added 08-01-16 at 15:55 ---------- Originally posted by normhead I don't ask for the best at anything or everything. I ask for good enough to be the best at something, and Pentax has always given us that. This is a very realistic expectation!

01-08-2016, 08:09 AM	#450
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	I can't contribute much here.....only say that faster and more accurate AF would be a huge step forward. That appears to be the biggest overall complaint about Pentax? Since that appears of be a matter of expense, it is hard to see how that will come about without prices we are not used to seeing? Otherwise, I just came back to look at the squirrels in their sample photos....damn fine looking they are! Regards!