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12-31-2015, 08:29 AM   #1
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A New 645 next yr.? Ricoh sensor patent

I just picked up this new post about a Ricoh patent in DPReview, News & Rumours forum by a Hong Kong member. There is a site connection in the post, which has to be translated into English. If you look near the bottom of site there are photos of 645 NII; is that a previous model or a new prototype?

Cool new patent from Ricoh on sensor
5 hours ago
Just read this - Ricoh patent sensor PDAF ( but also something extra ) - The text also read it would in one swift solve the color artifact problem with needing to de-bayer as now each and every photosite had full RGB reading .. Interesting sidenote regarding Pentax being 80 Yr next year , so likely some fanfare with their FF and might be something new and fresh ..

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12-31-2015, 08:44 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by 22codfish Quote
If you look near the bottom of site there are photos of 645 NII; is that a previous model or a new prototype?
It was new in 2001:

Pentax 645NII - Pentax 645 Medium Format - Pentax Camera Reviews and Specifications

The patent was discussed here:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/310440-ricoh-patent...l-pattern.html
01-03-2016, 01:57 PM   #3
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If there is a new 645 soon it might have a Sony 101 Mp 53,7 x 40,4mm sensor.
https://www.phaseone.com/en/Products/Camera-Systems/XF100MP.aspx
01-03-2016, 02:13 PM   #4
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Hmm... that's an outrageously expensive camera, and even Ricoh Imaging might not be able to make something "affordable" with that sensor. We'll see...

01-04-2016, 02:09 AM - 1 Like   #5
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Phase one IQ3 (same 50 Mp CMOS sensor as 645Z) is also outrageously expensive with its 41 000 $ list price. Including camera back, body and a lens. The new 100 Mp camera (same kit) has a list price of 49 000 $. Thats a 8000$ difference or almost 20%.

If a new 645 get the same 100 Mp sensor, in worst case it would cost 8 000 $ more. In best case it would cost 20% more. The 645Z was launched at a list price of 8 500 $. That means my price estimate is in the range from 10 200 $ to 16 500 $. Still a bargain in the MF market. Since CMOS manufacturing costs largely depend on production volume I think the most expensive estimate is much too high. Since Pentax is driving down the MF prices I would guess a list price between 10 000 and 12 000 $.

The larger size would make more sense in the focal lengths and image circles offered and more sense compared to FF. Personally I think 33*44mm is makes the difference to FF too small for the price difference.

Last edited by Simen1; 01-04-2016 at 02:18 AM.
01-04-2016, 02:24 AM   #6
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Agreed, i hope this comes true sooner than later ...
The main question being : will the recent DA28-45 cover that 53,7x40,4mm image circle ?
01-04-2016, 03:12 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
(...)
The main question being : will the recent DA28-45 cover that 53,7x40,4mm image circle ?
Since it's a DA 645 and not a DFA 645, meant to give approximately the same field of view on crop sensors (33x44mm) as the smc Pentax-FA 645 33-55mm f/4.5 AL on film bodies, it would guess it does not, at least not below a certain focal length.
01-04-2016, 08:22 AM   #8
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If Pentax can manage to use that uncropped 100mp medium format sensor (that rumors suggest is from Sony) and price it at 1/4 the cost of the phase one..... that would be groundbreaking! Forget about the 35mm full frame, bring on the medium format full frame!

01-04-2016, 08:32 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by stillshot2 Quote
If Pentax can manage to use that uncropped 100mp medium format sensor (that rumors suggest is from Sony) and price it at 1/4 the cost of the phase one..... that would be groundbreaking! Forget about the 35mm full frame, bring on the medium format full frame!
It's not "rumors suggest", it's Phase One that states so:

QuoteOriginally posted by Phase One:
Joint sensor development and optimization

Phase One and Sony have been development partners for years, the 50MP sensor being the first milestone of our cooperation, now found in the XF IQ3 50MP. Creating the full frame sibling to the 50MP CMOS system has been a top priority of Phase One for years. We’re proud to now deliver a solution that achieves the image quality requirements Phase One customers expect, all while providing the performance advantages inherent to 100MP CMOS sensor technology. Phase One sensor experts have been working hard to optimize the complete use of the 100MP sensor for the worlds most demanding photographers.
(https://www.phaseone.com/en/Products/Camera-Systems/XF100MP.aspx section 'Joint sensor development and optimization')

QuoteOriginally posted by Phase One:
COPENHAGEN, January 4, 2016 -- Phase One today announced that in collaboration with Sony it has designed a new 100MP CMOS full-frame sensor for the Phase One XF 100MP Camera System. (...)
(press release)
01-04-2016, 10:39 AM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Since it's a DA 645 and not a DFA 645, meant to give approximately the same field of view on crop sensors (33x44mm) as the smc Pentax-FA 645 33-55mm f/4.5 AL on film bodies, it would guess it does not, at least not below a certain focal length.
Here we go again.
02-07-2016, 02:59 PM   #11
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I've been wondering when a new version would come out. My guess was like in another 2 or 2.5 years from now if they stay to update time from the D to the Z.

I'm still pretty happy with my 645D, and usually prefer to skip at least one generation when updating cameras. I definitely could hold off another 2 years or so, but would certainly be curious about what's next. Personally, I don't need 100 mp (who actually does...??). I'd certainly be stoked with a bigger sensor, but again don't feel super strongly about it and I do love the CCD on the 645D. My favorite feature of MF is just the process that shooting it well demands, and that carries over from a 501cm to a 645D pretty well, though you can be sloppier with a D if you want.

The only concrete reason I'd even update to the Z is for the increased dynamic range, the rest doesn't make much difference for me though.
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