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07-03-2008, 03:33 PM   #31
axl
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QuoteOriginally posted by gkopeliadis Quote
Prime lenses have a maaaaaaaajor draw back for many of us shooting outdoors. Yes: dust while changing them all the time.
So a good looooong zoom is always welcome for those circumstances.
If you trade quality, than yes, loooong zoom is better...
I live in London, which I think is quite dusty and poluted. I've been changing lenses outdoors on nearly all of my shoots (since 12/2006) and "the dust issue" is practicaly non existent...
If you're carefull and fast enough, you don't have to care about dust, I think it has become much bigger bubble than it actualy is.
BR


Last edited by axl; 07-04-2008 at 12:03 AM.
07-04-2008, 01:51 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
If you trade quality, than yes, loooong zoom is better...
I live in London, which I think is quite dusty and poluted. I've been changing lenses outdoors on nearly all of my shoots (since 12/2006) and "the dust issue" is practicaly non existent...
BR
You are right. You have to trade quality for sure.

But if you lived in Greece or any other Mediteranean country, even in no poluted areas, you could understand how big a problem dust could be. I'm going to buy a new camera body soon for not having to change lenses. I was relactant to buy a K20D becaouse I find Price/Performance ratio too high but my mind is geting to it
07-08-2008, 04:14 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
why dont they make something cool, like a 10mm F2.8 rectalinear prime, or a 16-50 F1.8 zoom
A pet peeve of mine is people not understanding basic optics and basic economics.

Is a 10mm 2.8 lens possible? Maybe, but not certainly.
Is such a lens affordable? Certainly not.

10mm rectalinear primes that cover the image circle needed for an APS camera are only available in the motion picture world, and while those are often fast, none can be had for less than $7,000.

If you want a 10mm prime (God, I do), then you need to be prepared to see "f/4.0" after the focal length.

Physics takes care of most of this, economics the rest. If you're going to ask for lenses, at least consider what is physically possible and economically feasible. As for your zoom idea, I defy you to show me any 1.8 zoom lens covering a 3x focal range, available for any format. Anything will do.

Give me a break. Realistic requests are considered, insanity is cast away.
07-21-2008, 08:13 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
1) Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 18mm f/3.5 ZK

Link here:Carl Zeiss announces new 18mm super wide angle lens
for SLR cameras
The rangefinder Zeiss ZM 18 mm f/4 Distagon, holds up very well to the Leica competition.

On a FF Pentax DSLR, some day, the 18/3.5 might be very interesting. In APS-C crop, the FL is a bit inbetween; 28 mm was never any particular favourite for me in film format. I'll wait for the final call, till we have some user feedback on the lens.

Since I'm certain to be getting the DA 21 limited, for my K10; the Zeiss 18 mm doesn't really fill any particular important slot.
But we'll know more soon.

07-21-2008, 09:07 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by wiyum Quote
A pet peeve of mine is people not understanding basic optics and basic economics.

Is a 10mm 2.8 lens possible? Maybe, but not certainly.
Is such a lens affordable? Certainly not.

10mm rectalinear primes that cover the image circle needed for an APS camera are only available in the motion picture world, and while those are often fast, none can be had for less than $7,000.

If you want a 10mm prime (God, I do), then you need to be prepared to see "f/4.0" after the focal length.

Physics takes care of most of this, economics the rest. If you're going to ask for lenses, at least consider what is physically possible and economically feasible. As for your zoom idea, I defy you to show me any 1.8 zoom lens covering a 3x focal range, available for any format. Anything will do.

Give me a break. Realistic requests are considered, insanity is cast away.
are you an optics engineer or a professional economist?

a petpeeve of mine are people that dont believe in drastic changes in technology.

500 years ago people would laugh at you if you told them the world was round

150 years ago people would laugh at you if you told them you could produce light without fire

hell, 10 years ago if i told a computer engineer that i can hold 16 gigabytes in a piece of plastic smaller than a sugar packet i would get laughed at non stop


and the price? do you want me to go and find you retail pamphlets of 5 MEGAbyte harddrives costing 50 grand?


hell, tell anyone 3 years ago that pentax would have a 14 megapixel sensor for pennies they probably would also laugh at you.


why is it that optic technology and manufacturing should remain at the status quo? How are you so sure that some new breakthrough wont produce better glass?

or why even think glass? Plastics technology are on the up and up.

its called INNOVATION, but obviously you havent a clue what that is.
07-25-2008, 03:33 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
why are YOU so sure that this lens will be of superior quality?

the OP stated that this lens will be made available for the Pentax Mount, i asked why would they bother?.
Because it is a Carl Ziess, and they have a reputation of delivering quality, and this reputation is well earned. In many categories the CZ lenses are considered to be the standard by which all others are judged. Plus it will be all metal construction and made to exacting quality controls, think of it as a limited.

Why would ziess bother to release this lens. First the KA mount is open so they don't have to pay anything. 2. There are millions of K mount bodies out there that people still use and still shoot with and some of them may be interested in a super wide high quality prime. 3. the Nikon F mount and the K mount are very similar in registration distance and size, so there wouldn't be much effort required to make it either a ZF or a ZK lens.

One more general lesson that every one should learn and comprehend. Just because you don't want/need/use/see the point in something, doesn't mean that there aren't people out there that do want/need/use/see the point in something
07-25-2008, 03:49 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cideway Quote
...Just because you don't want/need/use/see the point in something, doesn't mean that there aren't people out there that do want/need/use/see the point in something
Yes, but I should have the right to ask why I should want/need/use/see the point in something. My mind isn't carved in stone. I think therefore I am. I want my mind open

Last edited by gkopeliadis; 07-25-2008 at 04:05 AM.
07-25-2008, 03:57 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by gkopeliadis Quote
Yes, but I should have the right to ask why I should want/need/use/see the point in something. My mind isn't carved in stone. I think therefor I am. I want my mind open
Yes you do have the right to, i'm not a communist hell bent on abolishing human rights. My point was simply to the implied sweeping statements made by some people, "I don't need it, and because of that fact no one does". I find it to be the hight of ignorance and arrogance.

07-25-2008, 04:16 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
...so manual focus isn't a big deal for the veteran users.
It is! At least in one of them :ugh:

Cideway: We don't desagree!
07-25-2008, 05:24 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
a petpeeve of mine are people that dont believe in drastic changes in technology.
A pet peeve of mine is people who believe in outright fantasy. Because they are easily led by those with more knowledge and power.

QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
500 years ago people would laugh at you if you told them the world was round
You mean spherical, I assume. And you are wrong. People have known that the earth is not flat since many centuries BC. A demonstration of same can be carried out without the need for modern equipment or complex maths. Of course the ignorant will believe in any fantasy they prefer.

QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
hell, 10 years ago if i told a computer engineer that i can hold 16 gigabytes in a piece of plastic smaller than a sugar packet i would get laughed at non stop
You might indeed have been laughed at, but not for that reason. A simple application of Moore's Law would have shown the possibility, if not probability, of your claim.

QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
why is it that optic technology and manufacturing should remain at the status quo? How are you so sure that some new breakthrough wont produce better glass?
There are certain laws of physics you might want to acquaint yourself with -- things like diffraction, speed of light and other aspects of optics.

A course in basic logic might also help. Just because certain technologies change dramatically does not mean all things do. Otherwise we might have expected real improvements on the basic shape of the wheel after all these centuries. Why hasn't science discovered new and better shapes instead of the same boring old-fashioned circle?

QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
its called INNOVATION, but obviously you havent a clue what that is.
Your logic is terrible and your attitude offensive. Can you please try to keep things civil?

It is pointless comparing increases in storage technology to improvements in optics since these are based on completely different physical properties and laws of the universe. Yes, these laws might change in the future. We might discover teleportation, pink elephants or ghosts. But until then it is sensible to stay within the realm of consensual reality.

Oh, by the way, I welcome new k-mount lens from Zeiss or any other manufacturer, regardless of whether I personally find them useful or affordable, because they provide more options for the camera system we know and love. How can this be bad?
07-25-2008, 06:05 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote

Oh, by the way, I welcome new k-mount lens from Zeiss or any other manufacturer, regardless of whether I personally find them useful or affordable, because they provide more options for the camera system we know and love. How can this be bad?
because it doesnt provide you with any usefull option

if you have a bag of bolts, and i give you another bolt, do you really need a bolt?

i have on my table a 18mm F2.8 Prime from Sigma, its pretty old, i cant seem to even google it, but it has the "A" setting.

i got this for 140 bucks, as far as i'm concerned, this is ALREADY better than the ohh so god-like ziess that is going to come out.


as for being offencive, i have all of you to blame for it since everyone seems to want to zealously defend carl ziess, the great innovator of our modern times.

i raised a point, i provided backup, the only rebutals that i have heard is that "i dont know what i'm talkign about" "its carl ziess so it must be good"

blah blah blah

like i said, i have an 18mm F2.8 prime sitting on my desk right now, with the A setting! CZ decided to make an F3.5, no A setting, and i bet it would cost 2X of the sigma.

where is the logic in THAT?
07-25-2008, 06:08 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cideway Quote
Yes you do have the right to, i'm not a communist hell bent on abolishing human rights. My point was simply to the implied sweeping statements made by some people, "I don't need it, and because of that fact no one does". I find it to be the hight of ignorance and arrogance.
you sir, have no idea what "communism" is to use the term in such a manner.

i may need to read some physics books, but i suggest you read up on government structure evolutions.
07-25-2008, 07:27 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
i may need to read some physics books, but i suggest you read up on government structure evolutions.
My understanding of communism is a socio-economic system of "government" by which a class less society and common ownership of property.

The term communist that i used, refered to the fact that most countries that claim to be communist, have controlled press and secret police forces, they limit human rights and individual freedoms, no freedom of association or speech. Protest are put down with soldiers (and tanks) and elections are either non existent or farcically run.
07-25-2008, 07:31 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cideway Quote
My understanding of communism is a socio-economic system of "government" by which a class less society and common ownership of property.

The term communist that i used, refered to the fact that most countries that claim to be communist, have controlled press and secret police forces, they limit human rights and individual freedoms, no freedom of association or speech. Protest are put down with soldiers (and tanks) and elections are either non existent or farcically run.
it is because people like you start using the term that countries have given themselves even though they represent little of its original ideologies that these ideologies are never heard or taught to the mass public.

what you quoted is not communism, it is a very harsh version of totalitarianism, a term i'm quite sure would cause many to think for a moment to come up with a definition.

much harder than branding someones ideas or methods as "communistic"
07-25-2008, 08:01 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Er... Mr Putin, there are people who have a preference for Carl Zeiss and Sigma. Anyway the common complaint of not enough lenses for Pentax mount is being slowly addressed, is it not?


Yes. Firstly, comparing a Sigma to Carl Zeiss, as some do, is like comparing a Yugo to Rolls Royce. Secondly, theses are all metal, smooth manual focus FF prime lenses filling a holes missing in Pentax line up. If Pentax make an FF DSLR, I will certainly consider both the 18 and 25mm Carl Zeiss lenses...
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