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07-25-2008, 08:06 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Yes. Firstly, comparing a Sigma to Carl Zeiss, as some do, is like comparing a Yugo to Rolls Royce. Secondly, theses are all metal, smooth manual focus FF prime lenses filling a holes missing in Pentax line up. If Pentax make an FF DSLR, I will certainly consider both the 18 and 25mm Carl Zeiss lenses...
my sigma is all metal and has a smooth manual focus, also works wonderfully on a film camera...

and like i said... many, many, many times in this thread, whether this reincarnation of CZ will be "ground breaking" is up in the air, let them make it, then we will see.

i am willing to bed that its not going to raise any eyebrows, it will be good image quality, nothing more, and people who buy into the CZ universe are going to buy them, and think they are kings, and i will smile at them as i snap away with my personal choice of gear.

07-25-2008, 08:53 AM   #47
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The discussion between Gooshin, wiyum, Cideway, and rparmar is priceless.

The performance has been awesome so far and I thank the actors for having provided so good entertainment while the summer lasts.

I need a role as well. Here is my text:

falconeye to Gooshin: "But you know that Carl Zeiss, the person whose name you treat with so little respect, was one of the very few people in the history of mankind who actually really shifted the barriers of the feasible? I am asking because you seem to forget that both, defending the limits of feasibility as well as demanding to go beyond is all the masses can do. Only very few very exceptional individuals actually ever do and if you ask them it was never obvious to do."
07-25-2008, 09:07 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The discussion between Gooshin, wiyum, Cideway, and rparmar is priceless.

The performance has been awesome so far and I thank the actors for having provided so good entertainment while the summer lasts.

I need a role as well. Here is my text:

falconeye to Gooshin: "But you know that Carl Zeiss, the person whose name you treat with so little respect, was one of the very few people in the history of mankind who actually really shifted the barriers of the feasible? I am asking because you seem to forget that both, defending the limits of feasibility as well as demanding to go beyond is all the masses can do. Only very few very exceptional individuals actually ever do and if you ask them it was never obvious to do."
Carl Zeiss is an outstanding chap, me and him had brunch the other day and he told me the most bizarre tale of one of his nieces and a 10 foot long alligator.


seriously though, my personal life experience (even though it is short lived compared to some of you) is that nothing ever stays the same, change is something we must adapt to, and to a certain degree, expect.

Heroes of the past become nothing more than conversational ice breakers and vague refrences of some sort of standard.

CZ (the person) may have been an innovator then, but CZ (the company) is most definitely far behind now.

for reasons already mentioned by other posters, for CZ to enter the market of electronized and auto focus lenses is... hard to say the least. They lean back and hold on for dear life on nothing more than their name and patented designs.

Just reading a few of the posters comments gives you this sense of this aristocratic perspective of CZ.



but in reality, someone like me has no reason to respect the current CZ image, because i can get the same if not better results, with more versatility, for less investment.

there are many people on this forum that swear by their Super Tac's, or other junk MF lenses, are they fools for having such a perspective?


i but i regress

a 18mm F3.5 lens with no electronic control is dull

other manufacturers have produced lenses in a similar focal length, with larger apertures, that have delivered much enjoyment to many of its users.

ergo, this CZ piece deserves little recognition.


if you (all) feel otherwise, that is your choice, but please do so for the right reasons.



**intermission**
07-25-2008, 09:19 AM   #49
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act 4

just felt like throwing this out there, this is a fall back on the very basic economics.

if CZ is so good, there would be a large demand, if CZ was aware of this demand, they would borrow and invest to produce more of its product, with the added long term benefits of greater R&D budget and reduced manufacturing costs results in a better end product for YOU, the client.


Yet here we are....


hmmm.

07-25-2008, 09:35 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
act 4

just felt like throwing this out there, this is a fall back on the very basic economics.

if CZ is so good, there would be a large demand, if CZ was aware of this demand, they would borrow and invest to produce more of its product, with the added long term benefits of greater R&D budget and reduced manufacturing costs results in a better end product for YOU, the client.


Yet here we are....


hmmm.
hmm.. if hasselblad were so good, that there would be a large demand...
07-25-2008, 09:41 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by OniFactor Quote
hmm.. if hasselblad were so good, that there would be a large demand...
i would to state that it is my opinion that the demand for a high quality digital medium format camera is a little more niche than the demand of 35mm SLR optics.

not to mention the current well known fact of the cost of producing very large digital high MP sensors that pass QC and actually perform well.

roll back a month ago, kodak is building the 50mp monster, a step forward.
07-25-2008, 10:20 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
it is because people like you start using the term that countries have given themselves even though they represent little of its original ideologies that these ideologies are never heard or taught to the mass public.
That would most likely be because the ideologies are fundamentally flawed, they don't work and never will.
07-25-2008, 10:54 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cideway Quote
That would most likely be because the ideologies are fundamentally flawed, they don't work and never will.
a valiant specimen for the status quo camp.

i rest my case.

07-25-2008, 11:43 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cideway Quote
That would most likely be because the ideologies are fundamentally flawed, they don't work and never will.
No ideologies ever "work". They are not designed to. That's why we call them ideologies.
07-25-2008, 01:55 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote

[...] A simple application of Moore's Law [...]
Which has a very stupid and missleading name since it is no law whatsoever.
It is a prediction which is works more or less following you wanting it to be followed (you cheat) or you just wanting to know what a smart man could predict of the future evolution of semiconductor facilities (still a nice result).

But that's no law.
07-25-2008, 02:01 PM   #56
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QuoteQuote:
...pink elephants...
why wait to discover them them when we can genetically engineer them right now. innovation at its finest, or maybe its most horrid? either way...
07-25-2008, 02:06 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
act 4

just felt like throwing this out there, this is a fall back on the very basic economics.

if CZ is so good, there would be a large demand, if CZ was aware of this demand, they would borrow and invest to produce more of its product, with the added long term benefits of greater R&D budget and reduced manufacturing costs results in a better end product for YOU, the client.


Yet here we are....


hmmm.
Gooshin,

I don't think you know how the German management works ... I knew firsthand how they think (another big German company) and here it goes:

Big demand for your products could mean like you said development, borrowing money, adding new engineers and production facilities, sustained growth for your business

Or

Selecting your potential customers by imposing humiliating conditions like money upfront or another payment guarantees long before delivery and waiting lists up to 9 months many times with long over dues. Take it or leave it! No further headaches about new personnel, investments, financial arrangements with banks. Just plain old school good life!

Add taxes and bureaucracy to the max and you'll soon understand why USA is the land of the free and the EU is the land of social assisted.

Not planning to start a political debate we didn't even finished the "communism" part (which incidentally I experienced firsthand unlike most of you guys!). And it isn’t pretty I can assure you.

Radu
07-25-2008, 03:24 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
[...] A simple application of Moore's Law [...]
Which has a very stupid and missleading name since it is no law whatsoever.
It is a prediction which is works more or less following you wanting it to be followed (you cheat) or you just wanting to know what a smart man could predict of the future evolution of semiconductor facilities (still a nice result).
A scientific law is a testable and reliable prediction about future outcomes. Moore's Law qualifies as much as the Law of Gravity. The latter is equally inscrutable. (That is, we do not know how gravity works.)

Since it has a limited domain perhaps it could have been called Moore's Prediction. Either way it's pretty amazing it has worked for 50 years.
07-25-2008, 03:36 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
how the German management works
Well ...

Some companies are like this, especially some parts of old grown ones like Siemens etc.

However, many (old and new) middle sized companies (which are the backbone of German economy now) have withdrawn from producing end consumer goods (leaving this market to Asia) and now are leaders in high end specialized goods. Serving them in a very customer-oriented manner.

Zeiss, for instance, has recently introduced a 2,500,000:1 contrast DLP beamer for public projection applications. Or a ground breaking Helium Ion Microscope. Their AF lenses for Sony are also quite state of the art, I guess. I am sure Zeiss themselves considers offering their lenses in Nikon and Pentax mount to be a hobby to be continued as long as their MTF figures haven't been beaten yet. It isn't their business. Not anymore. And we'll see how the Japanese optical industry will survive after China has ramped up theirs.

If you pay them, Zeiss will actually build everything as long as it is physically possible. Like the Apo Sonnar T* 4/1700: Super Tele Lens .

Gooshin, you may want to talk to them about your wishes
07-25-2008, 04:00 PM   #60
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Sorry to drop in here and spoil the fun about German bussines culture, not to mention communism, but the mentioned Carl Zeiss lenses are designed and manufactured by Cosina in Japan....
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