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02-09-2016, 07:21 PM   #46
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by K David Quote
I'm planning on getting this in October, when my K-3 hits three years and about 145,000 or so actuations. I would prefer it if there was a kit prime option, preferably the 43mm Limited or 50mm 1.4. I'm not sure why cameras don't include prime options for kit lenses any more (or often.) Zooms just don't get my blood pumping any more.
Unless one gets a significant discount, it makes more sense to buy your lenses separately. That way, if you get a bad copy, you can just send the lens back.

02-09-2016, 09:10 PM   #47
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I can understand why camera makers are cautious about which lenses they include as part of a kit. As soon as the kits are available, sellers split the kits and the value of the lens is eroded. The most recent example I can think of is the HD DA 16-85. The price immediately dropped after the K-3 II kit came out. A more dramatic example is the DA 18-135, which is officially 50,000 yen, available from a split kit at 33,000 yen, and I bought my mint condition second hand copy for 21,000 yen. I can't imagine Ricoh sells any at full price.

It might sound a bit cynical, but the kit lens is not supposed to completely satisfy you. It's supposed to be useful for getting started, and hopefully not too embarrassing in terms of quality, but ultimately they want you to upgrade. I personally don't have a problem with having a variable aperture kit lens as long as it has good performance within its parameters. Pentax has never made such a lens with WR and a focusing motor, so it's something new.

Actually, at the rumoured prices, the K-1 with the DFA 24-70 f2.8 would be pretty affordable even sold as separate items.
02-09-2016, 10:01 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by K David Quote
I would prefer it if there was a kit prime option, preferably the 43mm Limited or 50mm 1.4. I'm not sure why cameras don't include prime options for kit lenses any more (or often.)
Nice idea. The problem I see with including the 43 mm Limited is that it's a screw-drive lens, and I have seen so many reviews that mark the camera down because the kit lens makes a tiny whirring noise when it focuses, even though it's not the fault of the body. From some reviewers, one would think the screw-drive lens made a sound akin to a tank starting up, rather than the imperceptible (in most situations) whirr we all know and love.
02-09-2016, 10:56 PM   #49
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Pentax SMC FA 1:3.5-4.5 24-90mm IF AL

Hi

Pentax used to make the pretty capable FF SMC FA 1:3.5-4.5 24-90mm IF AL. I know it is a very decent lens optics wise, I have got one. The lens is not that ancient it was in production from 2001 to 2004 approx. and it has the very much acclaimed ghostless coating. The build is a bit sus, floppy and loose. (Has no impact on the IQ though)

It would be nice if Pentax could resurrect this lens, tweak it a bit, put some new tech coating on the glass and assemble it into a new modern WR body, thus the development cost could be relatively low. There is something I don't understand but why don't companies make use more often of their past successful designs, modernise them and put them back on the market. (maybe Asahi Optical have lost the blue prints) I Guess I'll never find out unless someone here can explain this to me.

Cheers

FA 24-90/3.5-4.5 AL [IF]

02-10-2016, 12:26 AM - 1 Like   #50
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To redesign that lens to have SDM or DC autofocus, weather sealing, and new coatings, all of which will effectively completely change the build of the lens, while ignoring any advances in optics or lens design that might have occurred in the last 20 years, would be akin to stepping over a dollar to pick up a penny. If you're going to redesign the whole thing you might as well go whole hog.

Assuming you can even get the glass you need to make the old designs, or can still make a lens element today the way it was made 20+ years ago, is a big assumption itself.
02-10-2016, 12:30 AM   #51
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Well, i am confident my like new FA24-90 will do the walkaround job good enough with my K-1
02-10-2016, 01:44 AM   #52
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There's a lot of stuff going on here! A week or so ago kenspo was saying that the camera was firmly targeted at the pro market and there was unlikely to be a cheaper kit lens option. The price of the body is either very aggressive or high-end pro-sumer (or both)- what they should, imo, be looking at is a rival to the 5D (i, ii, iii etc) or D810(...). Above that the flagships are too specialised and below that you're better off with APS-C most of the time. Pentax has never had many cameras simultaneously at a similar level, they have always gone for non-specialist cameras, so they need to play to their strengths, which is basically all-round usability and IQ not burst rate (sustained high rates are not compatible with higher Mps) or AF speed - though AF needs to be good enough not to deter people from buying the camera. So is it pro or is it not? The term is, of course meaningless in market terms, but basically, they need a good but affordable kit lens for people who who don't have arrays of Pentax FF lenses available, and of course it can't be one good enough to detract from sales of the premium optics, but it MUST be good enough no to pull the camera's reputation down. The kit lens will probably say more about the camera's target market than the camera itself, which we've been led to believe is high end -I just hope they pitch it right - having worries for the first time now - expectations, having been marched all the way up the hill, seem to be marching down again now!

Last edited by ffking; 02-10-2016 at 03:28 AM.
02-10-2016, 02:02 AM   #53
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The DA50/1.8 might make a pretty compelling kit lens - it's cheap, optically excellent, full-frame capable at a very useful focal length and already available. A twin lens kit with the DA35/2.4 would be another great intro to the format.
Then of course there's the DFA24-70, but that's pitched at another type of customer (like me!).

02-10-2016, 02:55 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by skierd Quote
o redesign that lens to have SDM or DC autofocus, weather sealing, and new coatings, all of which will effectively completely change the build of the lens, while ignoring any advances in optics or lens design that might have occurred in the last 20 years, would be akin to stepping over a dollar to pick up a penny. If you're going to redesign the whole thing you might as well go whole hog.
I am not so sure if I can readily agree with you.
Change the terminology from re-design to new new design and then tell me why there should be any appreciable differences in cost. You design one or the other.
And why should the application of any of the new lens coatings, like SP and Aero Bright, change the build of the lens ? These coatings have been applied to other older glass without any problems. I am talking about the actual glass of this 24-90mm lens which is not that old (from what I understand not 20 years) and is a proven performer. Put this glass into a new body the cost of which, including SDM and weather sealing, is the same this way or that. Is it not ? Surely cost wise you must be ahead when it is not necessary to design a complete new lens formula.

I am willing to admit defeat but I would have to see a plausible cost analysis.

Cheers
02-10-2016, 03:01 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
I am not so sure if I can readily agree with you.
Change the terminology from re-design to new new design and then tell me why there should be any appreciable differences in cost. You design one (...)
I am talking about the actual glass of this 24-90mm lens which is not that old (from what I understand not 20 years) and is a proven performer.
(...)
smc Pentax-FA 24-90mm f/3.5-4.5 [IF] AL is 15 years old (launched in 2001). That's a lot, in particular for a zoom lens.
02-10-2016, 03:20 AM   #56
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Hi all,

Im glad that the K-1 is almost ready to launch.. and I am looking for the list of FF comptatible lens that I saw somewhere on the forum.
I need to double check my set and Im very tempted by the 24.70mm /2.8

If someone can point me to the thread that would be nice
02-10-2016, 03:42 AM - 1 Like   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by DimC Quote
I am looking for the list of FF comptatible lens that I saw somewhere on the forum.
Your DA15, DA*50-135 and Sigma 17-70 are no good on full frame. The rest are OK.
02-10-2016, 04:16 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Your DA15, DA*50-135 and Sigma 17-70 are no good on full frame. The rest are OK.
Thank you so much Sandy...

It's sad for my 50-135mm and 15mm though !
02-10-2016, 06:38 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by K David Quote
I'm planning on getting this in October, when my K-3 hits three years and about 145,000 or so actuations. I would prefer it if there was a kit prime option, preferably the 43mm Limited or 50mm 1.4. I'm not sure why cameras don't include prime options for kit lenses any more (or often.) Zooms just don't get my blood pumping any more.
I would like to see a kit with a new D FA 50mm. Kenspo mentioned new primes as in plural, so I hope the D FA 50 is one of those.
02-10-2016, 06:53 AM - 1 Like   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by DimC Quote
Thank you so much Sandy...

It's sad for my 50-135mm and 15mm though !
They will work fine in crop mode though.
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