Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-13-2016, 01:31 PM   #151
Pentaxian
bertwert's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Golden, BC
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,883
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Leaked Photos of the Pentax K-1 Full Frame DSLR
QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Well, they read PF too qwickly : nothing new nor exhaustive on that link
That was me
Sent them an email last night...

02-13-2016, 01:32 PM   #152
Site Supporter
Zygonyx's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ile de France
Posts: 2,951
So you have to update to them something like on a 2 hours frequency
02-13-2016, 01:34 PM   #153
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,493
QuoteOriginally posted by Enrique S Toso Quote
She's moving, there is no light and no strobes, you have backlight, you are at F2.8 if not full open. 3cm back or foward in her eyes are enough for out of focus, specially when she comes closer to the camera.

AF.C is tracking AF.

Focus must be perfect, always, and its a pain to be fighting with your camera AF when you just want to compose and pay attention to people expressions. Maybe this is the difference when they pay you for been a photographer. 50% of the wow factor a picture is the focus, the other 50% is the compose, the light, the color, the expression, the moment, the background and the subject.

Go to 500px or some pro photography resource, and tell me what all the pictures have in common, every single one is pin sharp focus.
You're telling me Canon or Nikon Tracking AF versus current Pentax (and whatever the improved Pentax Tracking AF is) makes enough of a difference to a professional wedding photographer that the gear really matters, then? A pro cannot do the work with a Pentax?
02-13-2016, 01:49 PM   #154
Site Supporter
Zygonyx's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ile de France
Posts: 2,951
... I read somewhere that the best wedding DSLR was Sigma Sd1 or whatever Merryl :
AF included, that's the question !

02-13-2016, 01:52 PM   #155
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,594
QuoteOriginally posted by Enrique S Toso Quote
Focus must be perfect, always, and its a pain to be fighting with your camera AF when you just want to compose and pay attention to people expressions.
I couldn't agree more. The AF should be something you don't need to worry about.

But note that some pro FF cameras (eg the D810 and even the D750 now) do face detection in PDAF. So getting the eyes in focus and capturing people's expressions may not always be conventional AF.C and tracking at work. It is often AF assisted by face detection.

Pentax already knows about PDAF face detection - hopefully they have now fully implemented it in the K-1.
02-13-2016, 01:57 PM - 1 Like   #156
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,551
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
You speak for you I agree, because you have seldom or never seriously done sport photography. So in your opinion, AF point selection is used to select an AFS point to focus on a subject that is not in the center, and you could do that by using a single point and recompose. Now, consider a moving subject and you what to track the subject off the center of the frame. Please do yourself a favor, go out with your K-3 and shot moving subjects with AFC multi-points. You want a nicely framed moving subject (for instance by the rule of third), the camera would lock focus on the preselected AF point (default is the center point), and then the AF servo tracks the moving subject with adjacent points when the subject moves away from the first lock point. If you'd do that experiment, you'd realize that K-5 could not do it to the 1/3rd rule, and the K-3 could barely do it, and since the FF sensor is larger, 33 AF points on a full frame camera is about the same of when you had 11 points AF on the K-5 and previous 11 point AF Pentax cameras, it isn't much by today's standards. I visited your gallery of photos, several times, and you have a number of really nice photos, but, for what you do, I'm sure that you have to test AFC tracking in the situation I indicated to understand how valuable is large AF zone with many point in those situations. When you'll have played a bit with AFC, you can discuss. That being said , again , for static subjects, you don't even need 11 AF points, one very low light sensitive center point is sufficient.
First I don't buy one second you need more AF point on an FF body than APSC. You are not going to change your composition because of FF so the sujects are going to be the same anyway. A sensor that cover some % of the frame still cover some % of the frame. No more, no less.

Then I'am also an engineer as a living, a software engineer and we both know software can make or break a feature. The K3 for example has very basic tracking and no predictive AF at all. Just keeping the same number of AF point spead on the same surface ration on the FF but with great AF algorithms tuned could do much more than what we get now. And if the software better you could very well get better results than with more AF sensors. 33 AF points all cross type with better algorithms would likely manage to beat the D810, maybe even the D5. But this would not mean writing such kind of software would be easy.

Then we like to think we compare 51 AF point of D810 with 33 of K1 or 27 of K3 and think D810 has much more. The D810 has far less cross type AF point than even a K3.
So:
A D810 has 15 cross type sensor and 36 lines sensors, for a total of 66 lines sensor to cover the area. (each cross is 2 lines sensors).
A K3 has 25 cross type and 2 line sensor, that a total of 52 line sensors to cover the area.
A K1 would from this rumor have 33 croiss type sensors, that 66 line sensors to cover the area. Same number of sensors as D810. Exactly the same !

Ironically, the rumored AF specs of K1 and D810 mean they have the same hardware in term of line sensors but they are grouped differently. Assuming that the group of the K1 is necessarily inferior is kind of stupid. I'am sure both Nikon and Pentax choosed their design for good reason and would expect it to be a best compromize.

Last we have no idea of how well the sensors truely perform, their latency at different EV level, their precision... It isn't really possible to draw any kind of serious conclusion before having tested both extensively.

There absolutely no proof of what is the best design, just that until know Nikon/Canon AF was better than Pentax best. It is likely the K1 will not be as good but already has Nikon/Canon but already much better than previous generation. And the differential factor might be entirely different than the actual number of marketed AF points. To me the real difference is in the software.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 02-13-2016 at 02:32 PM.
02-13-2016, 01:57 PM - 1 Like   #157
Pentaxian
bertwert's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Golden, BC
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,883
QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
So you have to update to them something like on a 2 hours frequency
I just replied to a bunch of people dissing Pentax on there, this is turning into a 24/7 job...
02-13-2016, 01:58 PM   #158
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,831
Well, the AFS mode of the K-3 works very well. But the K-3 AFC takes shots even when out of focus! The focus priority of the AFC mode does not work. So, currently, if you are taking wedding photos with AFC ON, and shallow DoF and subject distance is slightly moving, you have to delete a lot of the shots. Same for indoor sports, the number one reason why my photos are deleted is because they are out of focus. On the K-5, AFC, when I selected focus priority , it worked, but I guess the K-3 AFC has a bug.

02-13-2016, 02:00 PM   #159
Pentaxian
starbase218's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Groningen, The Netherlands
Posts: 1,021
About the "fatness" of this camera: from the way the screen is implemented, with those rods and grooves, the camera probably has to be fatter than e.g. a K-3.

---------- Post added 02-13-2016 at 10:03 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
You're telling me Canon or Nikon Tracking AF versus current Pentax (and whatever the improved Pentax Tracking AF is) makes enough of a difference to a professional wedding photographer that the gear really matters, then? A pro cannot do the work with a Pentax?
I think most pros could work any system to do what they want. The question, however, is if that is the way they prefer to work.
02-13-2016, 02:05 PM   #160
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Poole
Posts: 1,486
QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
I just replied to a bunch of people dissing Pentax on there, this is turning into a 24/7 job...
good job!! - I was just now reading through with a sinking feeling wondering if I should try to inject a little positivism
02-13-2016, 02:09 PM   #161
Pentaxian
bertwert's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Golden, BC
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,883
QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
good job!! - I was just now reading through with a sinking feeling wondering if I should try to inject a little positivism
Anybody know if the Zos Xavius guy is on this forum?

We seem to be upping the mood for Pentax there...

Last edited by bertwert; 02-13-2016 at 03:20 PM.
02-13-2016, 02:12 PM   #162
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,556
QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Ironically, the rumored AF specs of K1 and D810 mean they have the same hardware in term of line sensors but they are grouped differently. Assuming that the group of the K1 is necessarily inferior is kind of stupid. I'am sure both Nikon and Pentax choosed their design for good reason and would expect it to be a best compromize.
I guess a lot of this comes down to how smart the software is working on the algoritme and how fast te processor inside the camera is. Faster processing means faster results. Then again the lenses need to be fast with it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expeed
02-13-2016, 02:14 PM   #163
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,594
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The focus priority of the AFC mode does not work.
AF.C and focus prority works well enough for me. The settings for the K-3 AF.C are perhaps too complicated to setup though, and certainly benefit from being tuned for each shooting scenario. When I am shooting bull-riding in low-light with a 70-200, I use different AF.C settings than when I might be shooting live music from the front of the stage with a 28-75.
02-13-2016, 02:31 PM   #164
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,831
QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
First I don't buy one second you need more AF point on an FF body than APSC. You are not going to change your composition because of FF so the sujects are going to be the same anyway. A sensor that cover some % of the frame still cover some % of the frame. No more, no less. Then I'am also an engineer as a living, a software engineer and we both know software can make or break a feature. The K3 for example has very basic tracking and no predictive AF at all. Just keeping the same number of AF point spead on the same surface ration on the FF but with great AF algorithms tuned could do much more than what we get now. And if the software better you could very well get better results than with more AF sensors. Last we like to think we compare 51 AF point of D810 with 33 of K1 or 27 of K3 and think D810 has much more. The D810 has far less cross type AF point than even a K3. But this not really that. D810 has 15 cross type sensor made of 2 lines sensors and 36 lines sensors. That give them a total of 36 + 30 = 66 lines sensors to cover the area. So: A D810 has 15 cross type sensor and 36 lines sensors, for a total of 66 lines sensor to cover the area. A K3 has 25 cross type and 2 line sensor, that a total of 52 line sensors to cover the area. A K1 would from this rumor have 33 croiss type sensors, that 66 line sensors to cover the are. Ironically, the rumored AF specs of K1 and D810 mean they have the same hardware in term of line sensors but they are grouped differently. Assuming that the group of the K1 is necessarily inferior is kind of stupid. I'am sure both Nikon and Pentax choosed their design for good reason and would expect it to be a best compromize. Last we have no idea of how well the sensors truely perform, their latency at different EV level, their precision... It isn't really possible to draw any kind of serious conclusion before having tested both extensively. There absolutely no proof of what is the best design, just that until know Nikon/Canon AF was better than Pentax best. It is likely the K1 will not be as good but already much better. And the differential factor might be entirely different than the actual number of marketed AF points.
Yep, you can always turn things in a positive way or whatever way you like it to be, I can also do it. But you missed my point. Please look at the frame coverage of the AF modules of Canon and Nikon both on APSC and FF and you'll see that every-time, the AF zone is relatively smaller on FF than APSC. Same observation if you compare the K-3 and 645z, you'll see that while you can do tracking across the frame with the K-3, you can't do the same with a 645z. So, 33 points AF on a FF , means that either the space between points is fairly large (less refined tracking information), or the AF tracking area is limited in the center which work only with subject in the middle of the frame. You explanation that 33 cross types points equals 66 points might be true from the electronic/software implementation, but completely wrong regarding how the AF area is used for tracking and actually taking photos.
02-13-2016, 02:33 PM - 10 Likes   #165
Site Supporter
kenspo's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Oslo
Posts: 1,879
Camera is not even out yet..Most of you dont even know what is the correct info and specs..Still there is whining and complaining. Want to bang my head into the wall!
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
1dx, ability, af, aps-c, camera, canon, contrast, d810, ff, finder, fps, images, iso, k-3, k-5ii, module, mp, nikon, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, pixels, processes, processor, rumors, sensor, sensors, view
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Specs of K-3II Daikokuya Pentax News and Rumors 780 04-26-2015 06:05 AM
Your existing computer specs and/or dream specs Medium FormatPro General Talk 21 09-07-2012 01:08 PM
K-X specs o_bender Pentax DSLR Discussion 17 10-09-2009 09:32 AM
K-7 audio specs? nostatic Pentax DSLR Discussion 3 06-16-2009 03:52 AM
k-7 specs?? houstonmacgregor Pentax News and Rumors 11 05-19-2009 05:26 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:22 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top