Picture of K-1

Kunzite · 02-14-2016, 04:32 AM

Originally posted by OTH

But there is something clever if you think vice versa. They could design a camera without back LCD and implementing a smartphone connection that use a smartphone as back LCD instead. That would have a lot of advantages:

a) the camera can be designed much more compact
b) the power consumption of the camera is reduced
c) no scratched back LCD, that usually happens after a couple of time in use !
d) the camera can be sold cheaper, because the costs of the back LCD don't exist
e) the smartphone can be placed free in any position, even far away of the positioned camera
f) they can implement the "touch-pad" function very easy, by using the touch of the smartphone. I'm really no friend of a touch-pad on a camera, because it's just a question of time that the touch gets scatches as an ordinary LCD too. But a scratch at a touch display means immediately that it is broken and must be replaced with a lot of costs even if you don't need it.

P.S.:

g) you could also use a tablet as display, that gives much better impression of the picture and would allow you to edit Raw-Pictures with software at site

They have a patent about that, a camera with a smartphone holder instead of a back LCD.
However, on a serious camera? No way:
- you want to have the LCD always available, not in your pocket
- you don't want to depend on your smartphone's battery (it's enough to have to manage camera's)
- you want a self contained solution. There's no guarantee you'd have a suitable smartphone.
- having to hold the smartphone with one hand, that's a tripod-only solution. Just try shooting movies...
- touchscreens might not work if its raining, if you wear gloves etc. The smartphone itself might not survive rain unless it's waterproof.

Summarizing, it's a bad idea - thus, it's discussed at great lengths.

Zygonyx · 02-14-2016, 05:03 AM

+1000
I hate using smartphone when shooting... generally the best way to loose everything, because of non welcome calls

Remind me, what's the aim of cell phones ?

pathdoc · 02-14-2016, 05:12 AM

Originally posted by beachgardener

a basic manual type Dslr,

You could go further than that. No top LCD, all the info in the viewfinder, micro SD card to save space, analogue control knobs... in short, an MX-D or K1000-D, but with a superior viewfinder presentation.

Kunzite · 02-14-2016, 05:13 AM

And don't forget: smartphones are slippery. You think there's a chance to scratch the camera's LCD glass? What's the chance you'd drop your smartphone, while also fiddling with the camera?

OTH · 02-14-2016, 05:20 AM

Originally posted by pathdoc

You could go further than that. No top LCD, all the info in the viewfinder, micro SD card to save space, analogue control knobs... in short, an MX-D or K1000-D, but with a superior viewfinder presentation.

THAT'S A REAL PENTAX

You Tube

i wish they had nuts as in good old days !

Kunzite · 02-14-2016, 05:23 AM

You mean like this?

You Tube

Our Heie performed extensive weather sealing tests, by the way.

Simen1 · 02-14-2016, 05:25 AM - **1 Like**

Regardless of how the camera is constructed I would want a Wifi function and a phone/tablet app with remote controls and live view finder.

But the camera, however it is constructed, should be an independent device. Menus should be accessible without a phone/tablet. I don't say menus imply a LCD screen. EVF or hybrid finder could be an alternative.

Last edited by Simen1; 02-14-2016 at 05:39 AM.

**ffking** · 02-14-2016, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by OTH

THAT'S A REAL PENTAX

not wishing to get over-serious about something that isn't, but I don 't think that straight after is the best test with water penetration -I dropped an ME Soper in a stream once - dried it out as best i could,and it worked fine - months later, maybe up to a year, the film advance mechanism started sounding a bit rough and eventually seized up - rust does its work slowly sometimes ;(

rawr · 02-14-2016, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

Another explanation proposed by sangha31 on Chassimages: these chips could be additional contacts for the new, fully-coupled Pentax 645 → K adapter.

The plot thickens.

It's an interesting step if true. Very handy for 645 pros.

Mistral75 · 02-14-2016, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by pathdoc

You could go further than that. No top LCD, all the info in the viewfinder, micro SD card to save space, analogue control knobs... in short, an MX-D or K1000-D, but with a superior viewfinder presentation.

That's for the future Zenit-D in K-mount

:

https://rns.online/military/Goskorporatsiya-Rosteh-namerena-vozrodit-brend-f...it-2016-02-08/

Zenit : la renaissance ?

OTH · 02-14-2016, 05:59 AM

Let me explain what i mean with the good old days:
At that time they had the concept of interchangeable parts. You could choose different types of viewfinders that could be connected. Has anybody of the designers nowadays ever asked a photograph with bad eyes who needs to wear his googles because the diopter-compensation cannot fix this problem ? In the good old days this people could buy a different viewfinder-module and it was fixed. Nowadays they tell these customers that it is not possible ! What a progress..

If you start to spin this further. It would be so easy to design the back as an interchangeable part. You could choose if you want to adopt a back-part that realize the communication to your smart-device/tablet or you can change it to a back-part that has a LCD. That is so easy to design. The same with an additional Handgrip that is simply screwed to the camera. Let the User decide, if he wants / needs a bulky handgrip or not.
And to spin this further, why do we always have to buy a complete new camera ? Wouldn't it be great to buy a new body, that is cheaper than a complete new camera and adopt this parts like viewfinder, LCD etc.. part to this new body or for example to decide to buy a new LCD-module, because it is better than the existing one that you own ?
Yes there where a lot of clever improvements at the good old times that sadly disappeared. I wish they had nuts to bring back this times

thibs · 02-14-2016, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by beachgardener

suits me, a basic manual type Dslr, no video,

Me too. No prob.

---------- Post added 14-02-16 at 14:09 ----------

Originally posted by Kunzite

And don't forget: smartphones are slippery. You think there's a chance to scratch the camera's LCD glass? What's the chance you'd drop your smartphone, while also fiddling with the camera?

Nope, Kunzite, that would not be a problem and here is why.
In the use case envisionned by OTH, the screen is NOT used in normal case. If you really really need one the possibility is there (smartphone, tablet, laptop, etc.) but it is NOT part of the workflow.
The use case is not stupid at all.

What is bogus though is the economics of such device. It would not sell, would be killed in reviews (remember K-01?).
But the use case is not stupid, just a niche. Justifiable for Leica or such brands. Unfortunately probably not Pentax.

Imp · 02-14-2016, 06:12 AM

Originally posted by kenspo

If i understood correctly..bear in mind that i wasn't drooling atm and didn't pay attention..That there will be 2 version of the FF. One with and one without the 645 connectivity. So take this with a pinch of salt since I'm not sure i heard or understood correctly

haha, hopefully you didn't drool all over a k-1 sample. Ricoh wouldn't be pleased

Mistral75 · 02-14-2016, 06:21 AM

Originally posted by Imp

haha, hopefully you didn't drool all over a k-1 sample. Ricoh wouldn't be pleased

It would have been a way of testing the weatherproofing of the camera...

**sbh** · 02-14-2016, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

Another explanation proposed by sangha31 on Chassimages: these chips could be additional contacts for the new, fully-coupled Pentax 645 → K adapter.

Here below a picture showing the contacts of the Pentax 645 mount:

This + crop mode for apsc-Lenses would make it really easy moving across all formats. The user wouldn't have too many obsolete lenses and bodies. That would make it a really attractive environment that no other company can offer.

02-14-2016, 06:03 AM	#207
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by beachgardener suits me, a basic manual type Dslr, no video, Me too. No prob. ---------- Post added 14-02-16 at 14:09 ---------- Originally posted by Kunzite And don't forget: smartphones are slippery. You think there's a chance to scratch the camera's LCD glass? What's the chance you'd drop your smartphone, while also fiddling with the camera? Nope, Kunzite, that would not be a problem and here is why. In the use case envisionned by OTH, the screen is NOT used in normal case. If you really really need one the possibility is there (smartphone, tablet, laptop, etc.) but it is NOT part of the workflow. The use case is not stupid at all. What is bogus though is the economics of such device. It would not sell, would be killed in reviews (remember K-01?). But the use case is not stupid, just a niche. Justifiable for Leica or such brands. Unfortunately probably not Pentax. Last edited by thibs; 02-14-2016 at 06:09 AM.

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02-14-2016, 04:32 AM	#196
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by OTH But there is something clever if you think vice versa. They could design a camera without back LCD and implementing a smartphone connection that use a smartphone as back LCD instead. That would have a lot of advantages: a) the camera can be designed much more compact b) the power consumption of the camera is reduced c) no scratched back LCD, that usually happens after a couple of time in use ! d) the camera can be sold cheaper, because the costs of the back LCD don't exist e) the smartphone can be placed free in any position, even far away of the positioned camera f) they can implement the "touch-pad" function very easy, by using the touch of the smartphone. I'm really no friend of a touch-pad on a camera, because it's just a question of time that the touch gets scatches as an ordinary LCD too. But a scratch at a touch display means immediately that it is broken and must be replaced with a lot of costs even if you don't need it. P.S.: g) you could also use a tablet as display, that gives much better impression of the picture and would allow you to edit Raw-Pictures with software at site They have a patent about that, a camera with a smartphone holder instead of a back LCD. However, on a serious camera? No way: - you want to have the LCD always available, not in your pocket - you don't want to depend on your smartphone's battery (it's enough to have to manage camera's) - you want a self contained solution. There's no guarantee you'd have a suitable smartphone. - having to hold the smartphone with one hand, that's a tripod-only solution. Just try shooting movies... - touchscreens might not work if its raining, if you wear gloves etc. The smartphone itself might not survive rain unless it's waterproof. Summarizing, it's a bad idea - thus, it's discussed at great lengths.

02-14-2016, 05:03 AM	#197
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	+1000 I hate using smartphone when shooting... generally the best way to loose everything, because of non welcome calls Remind me, what's the aim of cell phones ?

02-14-2016, 05:12 AM	#198
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by beachgardener a basic manual type Dslr, You could go further than that. No top LCD, all the info in the viewfinder, micro SD card to save space, analogue control knobs... in short, an MX-D or K1000-D, but with a superior viewfinder presentation.

02-14-2016, 05:13 AM	#199
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	And don't forget: smartphones are slippery. You think there's a chance to scratch the camera's LCD glass? What's the chance you'd drop your smartphone, while also fiddling with the camera?

02-14-2016, 05:25 AM - 1 Like	#202
Simen1 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tromsø, Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 1,031	Regardless of how the camera is constructed I would want a Wifi function and a phone/tablet app with remote controls and live view finder. But the camera, however it is constructed, should be an independent device. Menus should be accessible without a phone/tablet. I don't say menus imply a LCD screen. EVF or hybrid finder could be an alternative. Last edited by Simen1; 02-14-2016 at 05:39 AM.

02-14-2016, 05:36 AM	#203
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,039	Originally posted by OTH THAT'S A REAL PENTAX not wishing to get over-serious about something that isn't, but I don 't think that straight after is the best test with water penetration -I dropped an ME Soper in a stream once - dried it out as best i could,and it worked fine - months later, maybe up to a year, the film advance mechanism started sounding a bit rough and eventually seized up - rust does its work slowly sometimes ;(

02-14-2016, 05:44 AM	#204
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Mistral75 Another explanation proposed by sangha31 on Chassimages: these chips could be additional contacts for the new, fully-coupled Pentax 645 → K adapter. The plot thickens. It's an interesting step if true. Very handy for 645 pros.

02-14-2016, 05:52 AM	#205
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by pathdoc You could go further than that. No top LCD, all the info in the viewfinder, micro SD card to save space, analogue control knobs... in short, an MX-D or K1000-D, but with a superior viewfinder presentation. That's for the future Zenit-D in K-mount : https://rns.online/military/Goskorporatsiya-Rosteh-namerena-vozrodit-brend-f...it-2016-02-08/ Zenit : la renaissance ?

02-14-2016, 05:59 AM	#206
OTH Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 42	Let me explain what i mean with the good old days: At that time they had the concept of interchangeable parts. You could choose different types of viewfinders that could be connected. Has anybody of the designers nowadays ever asked a photograph with bad eyes who needs to wear his googles because the diopter-compensation cannot fix this problem ? In the good old days this people could buy a different viewfinder-module and it was fixed. Nowadays they tell these customers that it is not possible ! What a progress.. If you start to spin this further. It would be so easy to design the back as an interchangeable part. You could choose if you want to adopt a back-part that realize the communication to your smart-device/tablet or you can change it to a back-part that has a LCD. That is so easy to design. The same with an additional Handgrip that is simply screwed to the camera. Let the User decide, if he wants / needs a bulky handgrip or not. And to spin this further, why do we always have to buy a complete new camera ? Wouldn't it be great to buy a new body, that is cheaper than a complete new camera and adopt this parts like viewfinder, LCD etc.. part to this new body or for example to decide to buy a new LCD-module, because it is better than the existing one that you own ? Yes there where a lot of clever improvements at the good old times that sadly disappeared. I wish they had nuts to bring back this times

02-14-2016, 06:12 AM	#208
Imp Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,749	Originally posted by kenspo If i understood correctly..bear in mind that i wasn't drooling atm and didn't pay attention..That there will be 2 version of the FF. One with and one without the 645 connectivity. So take this with a pinch of salt since I'm not sure i heard or understood correctly haha, hopefully you didn't drool all over a k-1 sample. Ricoh wouldn't be pleased

02-14-2016, 06:21 AM	#209
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Imp haha, hopefully you didn't drool all over a k-1 sample. Ricoh wouldn't be pleased It would have been a way of testing the weatherproofing of the camera...

02-14-2016, 06:29 AM	#210
sbh Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Black Forest, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 852	Originally posted by Mistral75 Another explanation proposed by sangha31 on Chassimages: these chips could be additional contacts for the new, fully-coupled Pentax 645 → K adapter. Here below a picture showing the contacts of the Pentax 645 mount: This + crop mode for apsc-Lenses would make it really easy moving across all formats. The user wouldn't have too many obsolete lenses and bodies. That would make it a really attractive environment that no other company can offer.