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02-15-2016, 03:37 AM   #91
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Héhé, the tiny A20/2.8 seems to correspond to your requirements.

02-15-2016, 04:03 AM   #92
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I have a 20/4.0 M but it has a mustache on FF.
02-15-2016, 04:08 AM   #93
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This is a lens that is a kit lens -- pure and simple. There is no point in getting angry at a 18-55 variable aperture lens on APS-C. It is assumed it is there purely because it is relatively cheap to make and camera brands don't mind discounting it significantly. Most folks buying a K-1 will not be particularly interested in this sort of a zoom and if they buy it, it would just be as a walk around lens -- somewhat similar to the 18-135 -- basically you get it because it only added a hundred or a hundred fifty dollars to the price of the camera and you thought "Well, that's not so much, maybe I'd use it 'x' time..."

Lenses like the 24-70 f2.8 are unlikely to be available as a kit and if they were, they would not have a significant discount over their street price (which I think is the main reason that people want these sorts of lenses available as 'kit' lenses).
02-15-2016, 04:38 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
There is no point in getting angry at a 18-55 variable aperture lens on APS-C.
The point is there are different customers: those buying APSC DSLR (probably their first) need some lens and are happy they get a cheap one bundled with the camera. People buying FF have a lot of experience shooting with APSC, maybe a set of lenses and are not interested in cheap slow variable aperture lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
if they buy it, it would just be as a walk around lens -- somewhat similar to the 18-135 -- basically you get it because it only added a hundred or a hundred fifty dollars to the price of the camera and you thought "Well, that's not so much, maybe I'd use it 'x' time..."
If the lens costs 100-150 bucks then you are right. But I am afraid even this "cheap" kit zoom will cost significantly more, my guesstimate is at least 400.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Lenses like the 24-70 f2.8 are unlikely to be available as a kit and if they were, they would not have a significant discount over their street price (which I think is the main reason that people want these sorts of lenses available as 'kit' lenses).
You are right, constant f2,8 is too expensive (too good) to be a kit lens, but people here were mentioning f4 zoom.
Having said that, I completely understand why Ricoh made an f3,5/5,6 kit lens: if it was f4, if it even started at 24mm, many buyers would make do with it and had no need to buy more expensive f2,8 zoom. Ricoh would make some customers happy, but would not make profit. And profit is what is it all about. Now everyone who will want a decent zoom for his K-1 will have to buy the expensive couple 24-70 + 70-200.

02-15-2016, 04:40 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cez Quote
a constant F4 zoom would have been of more appeal
And it would have been significantly larger and heavier, and fewer people would have wanted it.

I am becoming very tired of people with a paltry number of posts popping up and crying doom at everything Pentax choose to do. You are going straight to my ignore list along with the rest of them.
02-15-2016, 04:45 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Héhé, the tiny A20/2.8 seems to correspond to your requirements.
I own one and expect it to perform well on FF


QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Most folks buying a K-1 will not be particularly interested in this sort of a zoom and if they buy it, it would just be as a walk around lens -- somewhat similar to the 18-135 -- basically you get it because it only added a hundred or a hundred fifty dollars to the price of the camera and you thought "Well, that's not so much, maybe I'd use it 'x' time..."
Exactly, i may buy one if the price is interesting but it won't be a workhorse, just a light kit for cases where you need to carry few stuff.
02-15-2016, 04:48 AM - 2 Likes   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by iudex Quote
The point is there are different customers: those buying APSC DSLR (probably their first) need some lens and are happy they get a cheap one bundled with the camera. People buying FF have a lot of experience shooting with APSC, maybe a set of lenses and are not interested in cheap slow variable aperture lens.


If the lens costs 100-150 bucks then you are right. But I am afraid even this "cheap" kit zoom will cost significantly more, my guesstimate is at least 400.


You are right, constant f2,8 is too expensive (too good) to be a kit lens, but people here were mentioning f4 zoom.
Having said that, I completely understand why Ricoh made an f3,5/5,6 kit lens: if it was f4, if it even started at 24mm, many buyers would make do with it and had no need to buy more expensive f2,8 zoom. Ricoh would make some customers happy, but would not make profit. And profit is what is it all about. Now everyone who will want a decent zoom for his K-1 will have to buy the expensive couple 24-70 + 70-200.
I think we need to be honest about where we are with regard to full frame -- at the beginning. Ricoh/Pentax is trying to cover the basics right now. They will have a 24-70 f2.8, 15-30 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 and a variable aperture kit lens. Well, and the 150-450. Down the road they may have a 24-70 f4 and a 24-105 f4 and who knows what else, but right now, they just want to make sure that they have the lenses that pros will definitely want to have when they are looking at a full frame system. And I think they will have those (with a lot of help from Tamron).
02-15-2016, 05:08 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think we need to be honest about where we are with regard to full frame -- at the beginning. Ricoh/Pentax is trying to cover the basics right now. They will have a 24-70 f2.8, 15-30 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 and a variable aperture kit lens. Well, and the 150-450. Down the road they may have a 24-70 f4 and a 24-105 f4 and who knows what else, but right now, they just want to make sure that they have the lenses that pros will definitely want to have when they are looking at a full frame system. And I think they will have those (with a lot of help from Tamron).
No dispute about that. Funds are limited and Ricoh is concentrating on the very fundamental lenses now, which is logical. I also believe there will be some constant f4 zooms in the future.
That brings me to the idea which Tamron/Sigma FF lenses will be offered with K-mount. Tamron/Sigma gave up on Pentax in the last months/years, but I hope the K-1 will change their mind (e.g. Art 24-35mm f2 would be nice on K-1).

02-15-2016, 05:26 AM   #99
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I wonder if Ricoh will carry over to the new body their strategy of providing light weight lenses in the APS-C segment, built on the concept that the later bodies are made for outdoor adventure situations. The new body seems to be a fair bit heavier so, unless they're targetting a different audience, it's consistent that at least some of the initial lens offering will still fit that image by being smaller. The two longer zooms, though, don't fit with that, so it'll be interesting to see how they pitch it when it's released.
02-15-2016, 05:29 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
I have a 20/4.0 M but it has a mustache on FF.
There is a reason I always held onto my 17mm f/3.5 RMC Tokina. It performed gread on my Canon 5D with a PK to EF adapter! The results on the FF Pentax should be comparable to my examples with it:
RMC Tokina 17mm + 24mm on water, in air and on land

02-15-2016, 05:46 AM - 1 Like   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by iudex Quote
The point is there are different customers: those buying APSC DSLR (probably their first) need some lens and are happy they get a cheap one bundled with the camera. People buying FF have a lot of experience shooting with APSC, maybe a set of lenses and are not interested in cheap slow variable aperture lens.


If the lens costs 100-150 bucks then you are right. But I am afraid even this "cheap" kit zoom will cost significantly more, my guesstimate is at least 400.


You are right, constant f2,8 is too expensive (too good) to be a kit lens, but people here were mentioning f4 zoom.
Having said that, I completely understand why Ricoh made an f3,5/5,6 kit lens: if it was f4, if it even started at 24mm, many buyers would make do with it and had no need to buy more expensive f2,8 zoom. Ricoh would make some customers happy, but would not make profit. And profit is what is it all about. Now everyone who will want a decent zoom for his K-1 will have to buy the expensive couple 24-70 + 70-200.
2 things: 1) choice of focal length/aperture is possibly more to do with the fact that Pentax already have the optical design for prettysimilar (if not identical )lens from film days, rather than any machievellian scheme to make anyone purchase a much more expensive zoom and 2) don't write-off the IQ of this lens yet - the DA 16-85 is a lens that is very useable wide open, with good sharpness across the frame from the get-go, so if Ricoh can come up with similar for the FF version, the advantage over a constant F4 lens is reduced.
02-15-2016, 05:57 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
There is a reason I always held onto my 17mm f/3.5 RMC Tokina.
Nice shot. What sort of airplane is that?
02-15-2016, 06:21 AM   #103
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The Canon EF 24-105mm 3.5-5.6 was initially marketed at close to 500 EUR (479 to be exact) and it is just a meh performer.
1,5 years down the road the cheapest price is at 350 EUR.

So this is the fair price level to expect, it is more than cheap enough for a FF lens. Anything below 500 EUR is a nice bonus and I bet it will sell very well.







02-15-2016, 06:24 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Nice shot. What sort of airplane is that?
Thanks! It was a Diamond: Aviation as unique as you are :: Diamond Aircraft Industries
02-15-2016, 06:24 AM   #105
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This will be a cheaper kit lens..But opticaly sharp.

There are other lenses for the pros. More to come soon too.
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