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02-19-2016, 11:10 AM - 3 Likes   #646
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
I can almost imagine the final pre-design briefing: "For some of those old Takumar-era Pentaxians, it may be the last camera they ever buy. Make it fantastic and build it to last, but also make it handy and make it affordable - you want them to buy it, not to die regretting that they couldn't."
I was struck last night by the rather melancholy thought that I know of two Pentaxians who did not live to see the Pentax FF realized, as well as another enthusiastic Pentaxian who essentially retired from photography (AFAIK) due to health issues.

In an odd way, the release of the K-1 is the end of an era for Pentax.

02-19-2016, 11:42 AM   #647
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V-A-V the post by Jerry K, I am in agreement. There are many more factors that go into a fine image than pixel-peep resolution. I've seen numerous images posted on PF that were taken with a K20D (= 14.6mp, about the same as a K1 in APS-C crop mode) that I would be very glad, very proud to call my own. I still use my K20D for some "studio" photography = higher magnification macro/micro, and the results are fully satisfactory. Going to the idea of larger format for more detail reminds me of the raging, sometimes nasty debate and conflict when I started in photography (1950's) between traditionalists for whom 4X5 was standard and 35mm was "miniature" and "amateur" and "tourist." Subsequently the assertion was that larger format always delivered better tonality, a more subtle gradation of tones between pure white and deepest black, than it was possible to obtain with 35mm. Anyone who has examined a well-made print from a large format camera will tend to agree. They have a quality that's different from 35mm. But if I were presented with 30 or so prints and asked to select those done from a 35mm negative and those from an 11X14, how many would I get correct? Chances are other variables - subject matter, high/low key, f-stop selected, etc. - would preclude achieving more than random, eyes-closed guessing.
02-19-2016, 11:58 AM - 1 Like   #648
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Yes it was.
AFAIK there's no 4K-capable "full frame" camera under $3000. For the K-1, this probably meant a different sensor (the 42MP one) and likely a beefier hardware (memory, writing speeds etc.).
Quick reply, and coming extremely late, but the Sony A7s does it for a bit over $2K. Still, implementing 4K is extremely demanding of the sensor, and this is something that people fail to realize time and again! The 36 Mpix chip simply CANNOT do 4K, as the bus is limited and it'd probably overheat in a conventional camera. Sony had to go to great lengths to make it possible on the A7rii, Panasonic had to go to great lengths to get the GH4 to offer unfettered 4K capture, and Samsung also struggled with the codecs and heat with 4K on the NX1.

Let me repeat myself - 4K cannot be activated in firmware for the K-1. It's simply not possible from a hardware perspective. That being said, Ricoh is guilty of not even putting 60p on the K-1, as well as the other goodies (stabilization, peaking, etc.). I'm guessing they really were constrained for resources, or they're waiting to make it happen in a FW update.
02-19-2016, 03:35 PM - 2 Likes   #649
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
ISO 1,000,000 = to be selected only for the (in)famous black cat on a pile of coal in an unlit windowless cellar on a moonless night. Way back, a photo magazine actually published just such an image, in B&W of course.
If I had that capability I could take a picture, and examine it, as I go about the house at night (I've already sat on our black cat at least twice because she often naps on a dark surface)

02-20-2016, 01:48 AM   #650
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
All of us have our dream camera or dream feature
I don't. My dream features are actually lens related, camera bodies are disposable - the glass you attach to it is what really matters.

Having said that: T/S lenses in 18mm, 35mm, 90mm would be fantastic*, A 90~105mm high magnification macro lens that goes from 1:1 to 5:1, A fast AF 400mm f/2.8, A few AF f/1.2 lenses wouldn't hurt either.

*Bonus points for a zoom T/S lens, that would be interesting.
02-20-2016, 02:21 AM   #651
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jerry_K Quote
Full frame (36 x 25 mm) 36 MP sensor as the one K1 is equipped with has pixel resolution of 7360 x 4912. That means the effective pixel site is roughly a square 5x5 microns. For typical lens apertures used in normal cameras for mortal people (as opposed to CIA, NASA, science labs and some such) that means the diffraction limit is reached with Airy disk 4-5 microns in diameter. Therefore more pixels in full frame format is a boneheaded idea - there will be no more detail visible, period.

The proper way to higher resolutions is through bigger sensors. And here comes P645Z, or for those inclined to self inflict financial wounds - Phase One. This is the end of the road folks. The wall put there by the laws of physics. You can venture outside if you are rich or don't mind to become poor. But in the world of small format cameras - 36 MP is the upper limit with which we'll have to live from now on.

But that's not bad. Look how fine we ended up with microprocessors that hit the wall of 3 GHz. See? The sky is not falling. We'll be fine. Some stupid reviewers in stupid pseudo photo magazines may have to starve to death, but that's fine with me. Now we can concentrate on actually making photographs. :-)
Not to say this is interresting to have very high resolution or not but, science and practice say the contrary. A 12MP Q is pixel sharp. An FF sensor with as many MP, would be 240MP. Sure for diffraction we would be limited to something like f/4.

But 16MP K5 or 36MP K1 have rougly same pixel density and start to see visible diffraction issues at f/11, f/8 this is not really visible... Each stop allow you to x2 the resolution so 72MP FF would be f/8, 144MP FF would be f/5.6 and 288MP FF would be f/4.

For many shots the apperture is not important because there enough deph of field anyway and really there not that much difference between f/11 and f/8 for deph of field for example.

This doesn't make resolution more usefull and doesn't change the fact that an MF shot would be of higher quality but we are sill far from the hard limits
02-20-2016, 02:25 AM   #652
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Here you get my story

Spec-wise the K1 fits perfectly my hopes and wishes - with two exceptions. I once said in a post I'd like to see a 24MP sensor and second I hoped for a more lightweight body.

The first was driven by the expectation that the camera would cost a lot more and the sensitivity would be worse. Now we face that the price of the body is hot for such a camera and sensitvity should also be great. Beyond that I get nearly the same pixel amount as with my K5 using the APSC crop mode. Enough for everything I do today.

Moreover I can use my three legacy lenses in FF mode plus my DFA100WR. That's just great. The price I have to pay is 925g vs. 660g of the K5 (740g with battery and memory card). And of course the most new FF lenses are very pricy. On my wishlist are DFA 24-70 and DFA 150-450. Until now in germany we don't get any rebate. So I'd need 1.999,- € (K1) + 1.299,- € (DFA 24-70) + 2.199,- € (DFA 150—450) in total 5.497,- € / 6.120,- USD to get all the stuff I'd like to have - shocking!

For someone who does not earn his money through photography that's very much. So, don't go the FF route? What will I do, what's my strategy?

I can afford the K1 and it seems to offer a lot of advantage compared to my K5 (5 years old, got the DA18-135 kit new for about 1.650,- €):
  • Better autofocus, white balance, ...
  • FF-use of my FF lenses
  • Big viewfinder (love that of my ME Super)
  • High ISO
  • No Anti Aliasing filter
  • Pixel Shift
  • Wifi- and GPS-Support
  • Swivel Screen (nice for my macro work) with focus peaking
  • Pixel Shift

Video, fast shooting and top notch flash system are not on my wishlist.

In short: IMO this is a really great upgrade path for people like me using older cameras like the K5 and legacy glass.

I believe Ricoh/Pentax tries to build a broad base of Pentax FF users fast and if successfull they go further with even more advanced FF cameras. Taking all the positive posts into account I think they could succeed. Well done Ricoh/Pentax!

If the ergonomics are nice for me I'll support them buying this camera this or next year. My strategy is to buy one piece every year as I did in the past five years. Until now I didn't prioritze the K1 against DFA 150-450.

Sorry for being that lenghty - just a summary of my thoughts since the official K1 FF anouncement. By the way - I think I won't put my small and lightweight K5 APS-C package aside. And I for sure won't buy into another system to get a FF.
02-20-2016, 02:31 AM   #653
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I'm afraid to go over ISO 400................
I'am scared to go over iso 800 on APSC but I reckon this would be over iso 1600 on FF. Meaning this would not change much most of the time as the deph of field would also be different.

And I'am really scared on APSC of iso 3200 and up. Theses tend to give not so satisfying results.

This is just that iso 1600 on APSC pictures are not very detailled, without that much nice colors and struggle already at a full screen preview (full HD). I also reckon that not all X isos shoots are equals, Good light high speed shot do lot better and you gain easily 1EV and a good lighting system also greating improve the results you get at a given iso settings.

02-20-2016, 05:19 AM   #654
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I don't. My dream features are actually lens related, camera bodies are disposable - the glass you attach to it is what really matters.

Having said that: T/S lenses in 18mm, 35mm, 90mm would be fantastic*, A 90~105mm high magnification macro lens that goes from 1:1 to 5:1, A fast AF 400mm f/2.8, A few AF f/1.2 lenses wouldn't hurt either.

*Bonus points for a zoom T/S lens, that would be interesting.
I'm definitely with you on a high quality TSS, especially at the wide end, around 20mm more or less. I'll be glad to use my Samyang on FF, but it's IQ falls well short of the Canon 24mm TSS I had several decades back.

I'm also with you on lenses lasting longer than camera bodies. Have several that have lasted through multiple film and digital bodies and that I'm glad I still own (200mm macro, 90mm "Bokina," 400 f4 Tamron, 85mm soft).

Last edited by WPRESTO; 02-20-2016 at 06:23 AM.
02-20-2016, 05:54 AM   #655
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
I'm definitely with you on a high quality TSS, especially at the wide end, around 20mm more or less. I'll be glad to use my Samyang on FF, bit it's IQ falls well short of the Canon 24mm TSS I had several decades back.

I'm also with you on lenses lasting longer than camera bodies. Have several that have lasted through multiple film and digital bodies and that I'm glad I still own (200mm macro, 90mm "Bokina," 400 f4 Tamron, 85mm soft).

well that the whole business model of the photo industry: sell cheap cameras to newcomers for volume. Some will buy some expensive lenses and create their own barrier of exit from your system. On the short term, will be always easier to buy the latest greatest/camera from the same mount than to switch. Meaning it also make more sense to buy even more lenses on the same system as well, even if their are not as good rather than switching.

Now does that mean lenses are great investment? Well most MF lenses are worth a fraction of their inital cost if you factor inflation in. They also limit you to MF. Old lenses tend to have more optical aberations, more CA, more flare.

There lot of great lenses available new for a bargain with great rendering, even more on the used market.

The real thing is the not camera nor lenses but the photographer, by far. The gear help much more beginers than seasoned competant photographers.
02-20-2016, 06:29 AM   #656
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The real thing is the not camera nor lenses but the photographer, by far. The gear help much more beginers than seasoned competant photographers.
Totally in agreement that it's the photographer, not the equipment that creates fine images. But I've already confessed to being an unrepentant gear-head, and no one will inflict on me more than a few picoseconds of guilt for purchasing any equipment that I want to try. As for old lenses being not-so-good because of AF and aberrations, for some but not all. The four I listed have IQ as good as just about any modern lens, the two macros are superior to many, perhaps most competitors.
02-20-2016, 06:39 AM   #657
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Let us also hope they reduced the manual focus shutter lag...
02-20-2016, 07:54 AM   #658
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
*Bonus points for a zoom T/S lens, that would be interesting.
Well you could have that now: a 645 zoom on a Mirex tilt/shift adapter. But I understand your desire: for Pentax to productize this would signal to me that they are serious about giving a reason to own both systems. Hopefully they will offer such an item or at the very least, partner with Mirex.

Michael
02-20-2016, 08:31 AM   #659
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So are we heading to a camera that shoots at ISO 1,000,000 at 1,000 fps with 1 Gigapixels on a 15-500 f/2.8 where we just take 1/2 second of footage, then send the memory card to the lab where a team of photoshopians spend weeks pulling out the frames we want, cropping the items from these frames we want, and call it a day (err month)? There is a comic strip in there.. somewhere..
02-20-2016, 08:33 AM   #660
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
Well you could have that now: a 645 zoom on a Mirex tilt/shift adapter.
I would prefer something with an AW/WR design. I'm sure those mirex adapters are nice, but there are a lot of moving parts where I can see there would be issues with rain/sand/snow getting in.
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