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02-22-2016, 05:52 PM   #706
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jerry_K Quote
Does anybody know what exactly is the K1's sensor make and model? Could it be the same one as in Nikons D7xx/D8xx?
I don't believe anyone has said officially (or if anyone ever will, officially). It is 36Mp, so it isn't the same sensor as the D750. Discussion here ( strongly supported) suggests it is an updated version of the IMX094, same base sensor as the D810. Reportedly Pentax has extensively customized / revised / improved it.

02-22-2016, 05:54 PM   #707
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A popular passive cooling technique in laptops are heatpipes with heatsinks. Phase change cooling are very weight efficient, but the pipes used in laptops are not flexible. If there exists flexible pipes for this purpose then I think heatpipes would be a good way of distributing heat from the sensor to the magnesium body.

Some thermal cameras and microscope cameras have active TEC cooling of the sensor, but the heat from the TEC are normally removed by a heatsink and a fan. TECs are not very energy efficient even in optimal situations. Ordinary refrigerator technology are much more energy efficient in removing the heat. If that could be miniaturized enough, I think that might be an idea. Active cooling can give a problem with condensation. This could be solved by a relative air humidity sensor that stops cooling when the humidity approaches the dew point. A small pocket for a replaceable silica gel package inside the camera should make it possible to cool the sensor quite a lot before approaching the dew point. The purpose of cooling the sensor is not just to protect it from over heating, but thermal noise levels decreases a lot. This could make Pentax the leading camera for astro photography and general long exposure photography.

I don't believe Pentax will introduce active cooling, but its a nice daydream.

Another thing I thought about was that Pentax could move the shutter to the sensor assembly. The shutter could be built smaller because it doesn't have to cover the whole sensor shifted area. Though it would be more to move around so I don't know if it would be a good idea.

---------- Post added 02-23-16 at 01:58 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I don't believe anyone has said officially (or if anyone ever will, officially). It is 36Mp, so it isn't the same sensor as the D750. Discussion here ( strongly supported) suggests it is an updated version of the IMX094, same base sensor as the D810. Reportedly Pentax has extensively customized / revised / improved it.
I hope their own interview series will reveal how they improved it. Maybe someone will comment on that at CP+ too.
02-22-2016, 06:05 PM   #708
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I don't believe anyone has said officially (or if anyone ever will, officially). It is 36Mp, so it isn't the same sensor as the D750. Discussion here ( strongly supported) suggests it is an updated version of the IMX094, same base sensor as the D810. Reportedly Pentax has extensively customized / revised / improved it.
That would be awesome. K1 would then score rather high in DXOMark (if it still means anything). I'm particularly eager to see sample photographs taken at the highest ISO. ISO 200k qualifies for a pretty decent astroimager (an "available light photography" taken to an extreme). Wonder what the noise is though, as a function of exposure time.
02-22-2016, 06:24 PM   #709
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The top ISO number doesn't indicate anything. Its just getting more silly for every time someone increases that. Compare decent ISOs in stead. Lets say ISO 12800 from camera A vs the same on camera B.

Note that even if its improved, the (single shot) DR seems to be lower because K-1 have ISO 100 setting as the lowest, while D810 have ISO 64 (measured 47) as its lowest.

DXO doesn't measure noise as a function of exposure time (aka how much thermal noise it has). They only measure noise in short exposures (photon noise + read noise). I would love to see a thermal noise comparison between cameras. I haven’t seen one test for years.

02-22-2016, 07:05 PM   #710
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I have a simple cooling solution if anyone finds their K-1 is overheating- send the camera to me and I promise to use it outside. We've had a bit of a sissy winter but it will still be -11C tonight and I'd bet that could handle any heat problems with mechanical SR and video*. I'll even pay for one way postage.


*we should start a mass petition to Pentax to get this enabled
02-22-2016, 07:48 PM - 1 Like   #711
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
I have a simple cooling solution if anyone finds their K-1 is overheating- send the camera to me and I promise to use it outside. We've had a bit of a sissy winter but it will still be -11C tonight and I'd bet that could handle any heat problems with mechanical SR and video*. I'll even pay for one way postage.


*we should start a mass petition to Pentax to get this enabled

39 degrees here. I wouldn't be able to take it from the bag, I'd have to pour it out ...
02-22-2016, 09:04 PM   #712
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14 heritage lenses supported...

I saw mention of this; does anybody know which ones? Let's hope for the FA*'s.


Cheers,
Cameron
02-23-2016, 06:00 AM - 1 Like   #713
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
39 degrees here. I wouldn't be able to take it from the bag, I'd have to pour it out ...
On the positive side, if you can find the battery terminals in the puddle to check the voltage it will probably be high enough to power the camera.

02-23-2016, 07:52 AM   #714
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Even if it as fixed it is still a floating sensor system. Moving it about would give of heat quicker.
Air has terrible thermal conductivity. to be effective at all Air needs a way to escape for convective cooling, how would you implement that in a weather sealed camera body?

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
a fixed sensor can be embedded in a metal heat sink.
Correct, MFDB even have copper heatsinks and fans to help cool the sensors.
02-23-2016, 08:36 AM   #715
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Air has terrible thermal conductivity
Quite true this. This isn't a simple problem to fix. Adding mass to a moving sensor (so the sensor heats up more slowly) or increasing the viscosity of the medium the sensor moves in (say to water or something with better thermal conductivity) will result in more heat, because it takes more energy to move the sensor and when the sensor eventually comes to a stop, that energy is converted from motion to heat. The only solution that comes to my mind is a closed air circulation system with a heat sink away from the sensor that radiates heat outside the camera (hand warmers in the grip?), which would require a larger body to implement.
02-23-2016, 08:45 AM   #716
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Adding mass to a moving sensor (so the sensor heats up more slowly) or increasing the viscosity of the medium the sensor moves in (say to water or something with better thermal conductivity) will result in more heat, because it takes more energy to move the sensor and when the sensor eventually comes to a stop, that energy is converted from motion to heat.
This would render the IBIS system useless as the sensors movements would be slower, to counteract the amount of drag you would also need to put more power into the magnets moving the sensor carriage and that would make even more heat

.
QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
The only solution that comes to my mind is a closed air circulation system with a heat sink away from the sensor that radiates heat outside the camera (hand warmers in the grip?), which would require a larger body to implement.
A similar concept to a heat pipe - however you're still faced with the problem of removing the heat from the system. And as I recall, heat pipes can only operate under finely tuned temperatures - at temperatures above or below their operating temp, thermal conductivity is limited to that of the casing itself, the heat transmitting fluid within is either completely vaporized from heat or solidified from excessive cold.
02-23-2016, 08:46 AM   #717
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If you somehow ionised the air, could it be then become subject to electro-magnetism, and hence be forced to circulate via a mechanism like SR?
02-23-2016, 08:53 AM   #718
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
If you somehow ionised the air, could it be then become subject to electro-magnetism
To do that would probably require magnets with a tremendous amount of power to have an appreciable effect. We are talking about 2 perhaps 3 Teslas, easily strong enough to make the internal stainless steel substructure of the K-1 implode.

Last edited by Digitalis; 02-23-2016 at 09:06 AM.
02-23-2016, 09:04 AM   #719
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
To do that would probably require magnets with a tremendous amount of power.
The ionisation could be via [crudely] a spark plug. Then magnets to stimulate and steer the airflow.
02-23-2016, 09:07 AM - 2 Likes   #720
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Maybe add a tube with two clenched rubber apertures, on top and bottom, so the camera could exhaust hot air, while still remaining WR? Sure, every 2 min the rubber sphincters would open up and PFFFRRRTTT release the warm gasses right in the photographer's face, but its a technology worth pursuing
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