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05-23-2016, 08:55 AM   #1516
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
In France we had bundles with K20D and DA* 16-50mm f/2.8 .
And I know at least one customer who bought this as it's first DSLR

05-23-2016, 10:45 AM   #1517
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QuoteOriginally posted by Glorfindelrb Quote
And I know at least one customer who bought this as its first DSLR
He could have chosen a worse combo .

And K10D (+18-55mm) + 16-50mm f/2.8 + 50-135mm f/2.8 was my first DSLR equipment too...

(after a few SLRs, I agree...)
05-23-2016, 11:17 PM - 1 Like   #1518
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Do we really need K1 resolution? For the fun you can actually take the time to respond to this poll to find out what max size the community is actually printing !

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/32-digital-processing-software-printing/3...ting-size.html
05-23-2016, 11:56 PM - 2 Likes   #1519
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Do we really need K1 resolution? For the fun you can actually take the time to respond to this poll to find out what max size the community is actually printing !
It's not just about printing big. The surfeit of megapixels allows a fair degree of cropping when one can't get close enough to a subject, or one can get another photo from the original - two for the price of one. It's fun finding pictures within pictures. Here's an example (I have better ones, but I'm darned if I can find them right now). I apologise that it as taken with another brand of camera (which I bought when Pentax did not have a FF, 36 Mpx body), but it illustrates my point. At least, my granddaughter has the sense to own a Pentax!

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05-24-2016, 12:49 AM   #1520
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
It's not just about printing big. The surfeit of megapixels allows a fair degree of cropping when one can't get close enough to a subject, or one can get another photo from the original - two for the price of one. It's fun finding pictures within pictures. Here's an example (I have better ones, but I'm darned if I can find them right now). I apologise that it as taken with another brand of camera (which I bought when Pentax did not have a FF, 36 Mpx body), but it illustrates my point. At least, my granddaughter has the sense to own a Pentax!
What a nice image! - I just have to laugh with her.
05-24-2016, 02:00 AM   #1521
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QuoteOriginally posted by acoufap Quote
What a nice image! - I just have to laugh with her.
Thank you acoufap. One would have to be a very miserable soul not to smile at that photo!
05-24-2016, 09:39 AM   #1522
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
It's not just about printing big. The surfeit of megapixels allows a fair degree of cropping when one can't get close enough to a subject, or one can get another photo from the original - two for the price of one. It's fun finding pictures within pictures. Here's an example (I have better ones, but I'm darned if I can find them right now). I apologise that it as taken with another brand of camera (which I bought when Pentax did not have a FF, 36 Mpx body), but it illustrates my point. At least, my granddaughter has the sense to own a Pentax!
I think that is very true. I noticed that going from 6mp to 14mp to 24mp. The added versatility in this respect really allows you to considered what you've shot after you've actually shot it.
05-24-2016, 10:18 AM   #1523
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
It's not just about printing big. The surfeit of megapixels allows a fair degree of cropping when one can't get close enough to a subject ...
We especially see that process when taking pictures of wildlife. I have trouble composing pictures with a long prime, so many years ago I learned to use a long zoom, centering in on the subject with a wider view and then zooming in for the actual picture. Many of those who advocate for the 36MP, or even 50MP, cameras basically skip that last step, especially when trying to follow a Bird In Flight.

05-24-2016, 10:27 AM - 1 Like   #1524
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What is this word, 'need'?
05-24-2016, 03:37 PM   #1525
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
It's not just about printing big. The surfeit of megapixels allows a fair degree of cropping when one can't get close enough to a subject, or one can get another photo from the original - two for the price of one. It's fun finding pictures within pictures. Here's an example (I have better ones, but I'm darned if I can find them right now). I apologise that it as taken with another brand of camera (which I bought when Pentax did not have a FF, 36 Mpx body), but it illustrates my point. At least, my granddaughter has the sense to own a Pentax!
Quite true, and for me I discovered that with K3, the lens rather than the camera being a limitation. If I do that with FA77 (f/2.5+) or DA35ltd, 50-135 or a FA50 (f/4+) then I can do significant crop and still get good enough picture for significant print size. If I do the same with DA15 or DA21 or 55-300, that's more tricky.
07-14-2016, 08:50 PM   #1526
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
…Some waiting time and I looked into Harper's Bazaar magazine. Full of images, …comercial images for some kind of product…. …Most of them are made with a full frame camera…. All these images have got intensive work done in some computerprogram to make them look excellent. That is also where the most image quality enhancement can be made next to having a great camera. The work flow with files from pixelshift is way to complex to be used in any professional way.

…but outside of hobby photography I don't see it getting popular. [COLOR="Silver"]
Pixel shift means a lighter workflow. No more Bayer Transform Approximation algorithms, no more maze, moire artefacts, “should I use AMaZE or AHD2 or VNG4?” Each pixel has full colour and full luminance values with no more guesswork and calculations so the worst part of the workflow is gone!

---------- Post added 07-15-2016 at 12:03 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
"Everybody" is relative. The camera market is shrinking every year. We are in a case of diminishing returns.

A 8MP is enough for most use because you can't basically see the whole picture and at the same time resolve smaller details than what a 8MP shot with you eyes. Even at cinema, for picture of 15meters wide, this is 4K, no more than 8MP. Many modern movies have 2K master for special effects. I don't see people complaining.
A 15m screen from 15m away is equivalent to a 10×8in image from 10inches away. 8Mpx is more than enough, usually. What's your point? It is the same as a 6×4in print from 6inches away (which requires more detail than a 5inch smartphone held 16inches from your face).

---------- Post added 07-15-2016 at 12:41 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
It is called smartphone and not a PDA because the key feature of the device, like it or not is the chip that allow the device to be connected, to take phone call, send an receive text... If you let people choose between having only the PDA capabilities (display agenda, take notes and so on) or have only communication capabilities (phone call, text, mails, chat) or only picture/video capabilities most people would focus on the communication part.
“If you let people choose…” Actually, the tech world does let people choose; my brother-in-law choose the PDA capabilities (he got an Android® tablet), my mother-in-law choose the phone (she bought a clamshell phone), and I choose the full monty (and got an Android® smartphone, a.k.a., full-featured PDA with communication, just like the Palm Pilot® Treo®).
07-15-2016, 05:35 AM   #1527
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QuoteOriginally posted by Logics Quote
Pixel shift means a lighter workflow. No more Bayer Transform Approximation algorithms, no more maze, moire artefacts, “should I use AMaZE or AHD2 or VNG4?” Each pixel has full colour and full luminance values with no more guesswork and calculations so the worst part of the workflow is gone!
To be 100% accurate: you can still get moire with Pixel shift. It's still a matrix. No different than a porch screen. But it is true that transformation-induced moire is eliminated.

Michael
07-17-2016, 03:22 AM   #1528
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QuoteOriginally posted by Logics Quote
Each pixel has full colour and full luminance values with no more guesswork and calculations so the worst part of the workflow is gone!
For my taste, this is a too pixel-centric view.

One should not forget that our own eyes don't capture color information at full resolution or anything close. Therefore, for an optimal viewing experience of the final art, there is no point in capturing full colour information at every pixel.
07-17-2016, 07:50 AM   #1529
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
It's not just about printing big. The surfeit of megapixels allows a fair degree of cropping when one can't get close enough to a subject, or one can get another photo from the original - two for the price of one. It's fun finding pictures within pictures. Here's an example (I have better ones, but I'm darned if I can find them right now). I apologise that it as taken with another brand of camera (which I bought when Pentax did not have a FF, 36 Mpx body), but it illustrates my point. At least, my granddaughter has the sense to own a Pentax!
I will admit that WA and UWA in Pentax land are not that sharp, at least the small primes. (8-16 and 18-25 from sigma are no issue). But you can typically do that, maybe to a lesser extent, but still.

50-135, at 80mm



A 100% crop, 600mm equivalent on FF, no sharpening, contrast or whatever postprocessing. You could make it look better.



While 100% crop quality (here 1200px) would be quite limited, if your lens is sharp and your technique is good, you can drop to half width, half heigh in both directly and still get a nice picture typically. Past that or if your technique is soso, that might not be possible... But the FF suffer from the same issue. If the technique is not up to the standard, the issue remains.

With the 35ltd or the FA77, I have lot of margin to play with !

Last edited by Nicolas06; 07-17-2016 at 07:56 AM.
07-17-2016, 08:01 AM   #1530
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QuoteOriginally posted by Logics Quote
A 15m screen from 15m away is equivalent to a 10×8in image from 10inches away. 8Mpx is more than enough, usually. What's your point? It is the same as a 6×4in print from 6inches away (which requires more detail than a 5inch smartphone held 16inches from your face).[COLOR="Silver"]
Typically, when you go to cinema, you don't get the feeling you look at a 10x8in image from 10inches away. But it would make no sense to stare at the screen from 2-3meters and percieve only a small fraction of the scene. And most people looking at picture don't do so with a 40x60" print staring at it from 10" or less. And many movies still use full HD master with mere 2MP...

For practical purpose 36MP is nice to have lot of margin to crop, reframe etc but not a requirement to print at any size. Even for 6x4meters. FF is nice for the high iso, the shallow dof while keeping an apperture the lens is great at... We got nice enlargement for quite some time already, from film and DSLR that were at time only like 8-12MP without much issues.

But I agree that a 12MP image, once reframed significantly may no longer have enough details. So you'd want at least 16-24MP without low pass filter and sharp lenses. You can get more, but that only a matter of diminushing returns. It may be worth for some than others.

For most of your clients if your are a pro shooter or people looking at your photos (familly members, friends on the web), they couldn't care less.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 07-17-2016 at 08:08 AM.
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