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07-18-2016, 08:33 AM   #1531
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
For my taste, this is a too pixel-centric view.

One should not forget that our own eyes don't capture color information at full resolution or anything close. Therefore, for an optimal viewing experience of the final art, there is no point in capturing full colour information at every pixel.
My point was not how wonderful it is for beautiful sharp pictures. The points you and Nicholas06 are making are perfectly valid. My point is that the workflow becomes easier and quicker when every pixel has accurate colour and intensity values without having to do Bayer transform approximations. Creating B&Ws from colour RAWs become easier and faster (and sharper, but who cares) when every pixel has accurate intensity information. My point is that the workflow improves and becomes less complex and faster with PS technology, not more complex and longer.

07-18-2016, 12:54 PM   #1532
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QuoteOriginally posted by Logics Quote
My point was not how wonderful it is for beautiful sharp pictures. The points you and Nicholas06 are making are perfectly valid. My point is that the workflow becomes easier and quicker when every pixel has accurate colour and intensity values without having to do Bayer transform approximations. Creating B&Ws from colour RAWs become easier and faster (and sharper, but who cares) when every pixel has accurate intensity information. My point is that the workflow improves and becomes less complex and faster with PS technology, not more complex and longer.
I honestly don't get this workflow thing. If I don't use pixel shift, I can use any raw editing software in the market, it will work just fine or I can just use the JPEG.

I'll be able to take the picture without tripod in most cases and I'll have no issue with moving subjects. Again, it will just work, like it worked for all digital camera until pixel shift.

If I use pixel shift, I need a sturdy tripod, I need a scene without movement, I am quite restricted in the tooling I can use for the post processing. If I want to combine this with other features like focus stacking, HDR, panoramas, again this is much more complex.

To me it dirsturb a workflow more than it simplify it.
07-18-2016, 01:34 PM   #1533
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Typically, when you go to cinema, you don't get the feeling you look at a 10x8in image from 10inches away. But it would make no sense to stare at the screen from 2-3meters and percieve only a small fraction of the scene. And most people looking at picture don't do so with a 40x60" print staring at it from 10" or less. And many movies still use full HD master with mere 2MP...
DSLR are a waste of money.

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
For most of your clients if your are a pro shooter or people looking at your photos (familly members, friends on the web), they couldn't care less.
That's why pro photographer make so much money since they don't need expensive cameras anymore. They get paid loads of money by shooting with iphones.

---------- Post added 18-07-16 at 22:38 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
If I use pixel shift, I need a sturdy tripod, I need a scene without movement, I am quite restricted in the tooling I can use for the post processing.
Unlike what's being said by marketing and reviewers; pixel shift with motion correction works even handheld versus when subject is moving. Camera algorithm measure the global shift between frame and align frames. I shot pixel shift handheld and I get more sharpness out than if I shoot a single shot with SR ON !

---------- Post added 18-07-16 at 22:43 ----------

Too bad people denigrate the techno and efforts deployed by Ricoh imaging for Pentax. That's how we kill a camera brand and get nothing in return. The user of the same brand shoots himself in the foot. I've never seem anyone getting royalties by the amount of downgrading high quality things.

---------- Post added 18-07-16 at 22:49 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
A 100% crop, 600mm equivalent on FF, no sharpening, contrast or whatever postprocessing. You could make it look better.
How many times did you post the same photo, Nicolas? This photo is rather old, I've seen it many time as material for explaining that resolution isn't needed to post at web size. Are you still doing photography or have you lost the passion for something else and replaced the photography hobby by a smartphone?

Last edited by biz-engineer; 07-18-2016 at 01:51 PM.
07-18-2016, 11:07 PM   #1534
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
That's why pro photographer make so much money since they don't need expensive cameras anymore. They get paid loads of money by shooting with iphones.
So if somebody say that a 24MP FF is enough for most pro uses, this is equivalent to say iphones are enough for most pro use. What a fantastic and realistic argument to protect the K1. In particular couting the numbers of pro owning a D750 or K1 or iphones for handling weddings, studio shots or action/sport...

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Unlike what's being said by marketing and reviewers; pixel shift with motion correction works even handheld versus when subject is moving. Camera algorithm measure the global shift between frame and align frames. I shot pixel shift handheld and I get more sharpness out than if I shoot a single shot with SR ON !
You complain I show old pictures. But that's a picture and it get to the point. Why don't you illustrate your point?

That would be quite interresting to show the possibility to shoot a landscape handled in pixel shift and explain when it work well or not.
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
How many times did you post the same photo, Nicolas? This photo is rather old, I've seen it many time as material for explaining that resolution isn't needed to post at web size. Are you still doing photography or have you lost the passion for something else and replaced the photography hobby by a smartphone?
Do I post photos? You can check my flickr account in my sig. From time to time I add example to Lens sample archive or Lens club. But where can I check you photos? There 18 on your photo album, no link in your sig.

I don't think people should be forced in general to put their photos there to say something. I actually think your argument to counter a point you don't like is quite weak... Picture too old doesn't count... But the only thing it really point out is that heavy cropping was a long solved issue.

But if you complain about people not posting enough photos and when they do that they are old, then why don't you start with yourself?


Last edited by Nicolas06; 07-18-2016 at 11:13 PM.
07-18-2016, 11:16 PM   #1535
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I actually think your argument to counter a point you don't like is quite weak...
Yes I'm weak. It's a battle of ego , who's right, who's wrong, who has the last word and win the argument , that's what photography is about (for some).

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
But if you complain about people not posting enough photos and when they do that they are old, then why don't you start with yourself?
I do, in the K1 section :-).

---------- Post added 19-07-16 at 08:18 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
You complain I show old pictures. But that's a picture and it get to the point. Why don't you illustrate your point?
Reading your general rhetoric (= smartphones are more than enough + shooting FA limited primes = contradiction), I was just wondering if you are more interesting in arguing than actually taking photographs.
07-19-2016, 01:55 AM   #1536
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Yes I'm weak. It's a battle of ego , who's right, who's wrong, who has the last word and win the argument , that's what photography is about (for some).



I do, in the K1 section :-).

---------- Post added 19-07-16 at 08:18 ----------



Reading your general rhetoric (= smartphones are more than enough + shooting FA limited primes = contradiction), I was just wondering if you are more interesting in arguing than actually taking photographs.
All of it... +1 (no, +5 at least)
07-19-2016, 07:01 AM   #1537
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Best of all, Nicolas wrote somewhere he wasn't interested in K-1 anymore because of weak AF performance in the wake of DPR's highly reliable bike-test.

C'mon boys, this forum is so passionating that we like standing all the day long there
And in the end of the day, we hardly remember what we wrote in the morning

Last edited by Zygonyx; 07-19-2016 at 07:06 AM.
07-19-2016, 09:52 AM   #1538
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Best of all, Nicolas wrote somewhere he wasn't interested in K-1 anymore because of weak AF performance in the wake of DPR's highly reliable bike-test.
....

QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
C'mon boys, this forum is so passionating that we like standing all the day long there
And in the end of the day, we hardly remember what we wrote in the morning
I think most of us know what, at least more or less, what we wrote. Some others either change their mind each post and contest they did or they do not show a single ounce of logic in any argument (or what is supposed to be an argument).
Strangely, most of the time, those never get a response 'cos those are ignored by half the forum

Would be fun to have a 'hall of fame' of ignored posters
Yes I'm ignored too, we all are the idiot of someone else, that's fine to me.

07-19-2016, 11:47 PM   #1539
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Best of all, Nicolas wrote somewhere he wasn't interested in K-1 anymore because of weak AF performance in the wake of DPR's highly reliable bike-test.

C'mon boys, this forum is so passionating that we like standing all the day long there
And in the end of the day, we hardly remember what we wrote in the morning
I must have forgotten that, don't hesitate to show me... I must have some memory issues
07-19-2016, 11:55 PM   #1540
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Would be fun to have a 'hall of fame' of ignored posters
I hope to be on the top of that list. I don't miss any of the idiots that ignore me


(if you can read this and feel insulted you forgot to put me on that list ......... )
07-20-2016, 12:16 AM   #1541
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Reading your general rhetoric (= smartphones are more than enough + shooting FA limited primes = contradiction), I was just wondering if you are more interesting in arguing than actually taking photographs.
That funny I am all contradiction when I say most are just using smartphones to take photos (who can deny that?) and that myself I shoot K3 + FAltd. Yeah.

You know I take photos, you say I don't, so you just do it for pure rhetorics...

Just for what? Complain that a picture example is too old for you? I didn't hear you said it didn't illustrate the point.
07-20-2016, 12:18 AM   #1542
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Pixel/Sensor size matters
My customers and sports friends identify even my facebook photos as the new camera photos cause of the more and higher clarity
ISO 1600 is crystal clear now,like ISO 400 of my photos before the K-1.
What better could be happened,as customers and friends told you that the quality is going up much?
Even my photos with the preseries camera and preseries firmware,I got a quality like never before with a Pentax K,only my 645 Z pictures...OK...but what is this for fat and expensive camera?
07-20-2016, 01:52 AM - 1 Like   #1543
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I long ignored how much talented I was until I got a K1, because, since I carry the K1 around everyone think I'm a pro and asking for a business card and how much I charge. I just have to say a price and cash in the money. When I add the grip on the K1 and a DFA70-200 or DFA150-450, I can't walk un-noticed, I make shadow on D810s and 5Ds owners and I can rival the D5 and 1Dx in size. When I arrive in a group of photog my K1 impose himself as the Alpha male of the DSLR group.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 07-20-2016 at 02:03 AM.
07-20-2016, 02:27 AM   #1544
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I hope to be on the top of that list. I don't miss any of the idiots that ignore me


(if you can read this and feel insulted you forgot to put me on that list ......... )
You're on the list but it doesn't mean I never read you. And why the hell should I feel insulted?

As I said we're always the idiot (or whatever word you may want to put here) of someone else. And it probably is better that way, btw.
07-20-2016, 02:51 AM   #1545
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QuoteOriginally posted by Logics Quote
My point is that the workflow becomes easier and quicker when every pixel has accurate colour and intensity values without having to do Bayer transform approximations.
That's true in theory, false in practice.

That's because the "workflow" has to deal with 4x the data and has to guess which pixels did change.

The immense success of the Bayer pattern has to do with its efficient "workflow", needing much less original data for the same perceived image quality.

The real merit of pixel-shift is an absolute better image quality at the pixel-level than a single capture with a Bayer filter could provide. For me, it may mean more fun at post-processing at 100% view.
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