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02-21-2016, 01:56 AM   #436
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Well, I agree, but it wasn't even hinting at that (OK, one early comment), and I note that, Mac users having discussed the pros and cons of models and software, Windows users followed up with a similar discussion! All very civilised, as it should be. Not even a comment about cross-platform rivalry.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rorschach Quote
I would never buy a Mac for anything. Terrible quality/price ratio. Desktop computers I always build from components by myself. It is really easy to do. Top notch parts, fabulous quality for price.
I was wrong: make that two.

Sheesh…

02-21-2016, 02:41 AM   #437
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
What an odd remark ...

Since four years, I edit my 36mp raws with a now six y.o. MacBook Pro and even at the time I purchased it, it was a hair cheaper than an equivalently built Dell or HP.

Taking resale value into account, a Mac is more value for the bang. Only problem, you won't get the stuff built to lowest standards. Just my two cents to oppose you. OT anyway
But the problem is not really there IMO (and not even Mac vs PC). It just happens that modern mac (Macbboks) are not upgradeable because most if not everything is fused.
So, no easy SSD upgrade, no RAM upgrade, of course no CPU upgrade. And that, personnal opinion of course, is unacceptable for the price asked.
It's a pity I quite like my old Macbook (an upgradeable one).

Another problem we face when using softwares like Lightroom is not the storage space, it is cheap, but the storage speed. HDD are so slow, this is very annoying to navigate in a LR catalog.
Of course if one has money to put it all on SSDs, that's different.
02-21-2016, 03:25 AM   #438
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
What an odd remark ...

Since four years, I edit my 36mp raws with a now six y.o. MacBook Pro and even at the time I purchased it, it was a hair cheaper than an equivalently built Dell or HP.

Taking resale value into account, a Mac is more value for the bang. Only problem, you won't get the stuff built to lowest standards. Just my two cents to oppose you. OT anyway
It depend how you do it man. Building a computer is a puzzle with less than 10 parts, anybody can do it when you buy all the pieces yourself, nobody can bullshit you. You choose the right brand, hight quality gear for each part and you get no issue. when you buy thing made for you, they use non standard part, typically a sub part motherboard (because it is never written on the spec), soso power suply (one of the thing that is responsable of most issue) and you don't know if the memory used is of good quality or not. Cheap memory tend to have failure and make you computer fail or reboot randomly. If you get only high quality part, you get a very solid build. Last you can't choose the bundle that match your needs. If you deviate from most manufacturers marketing targets, you have to pay for thing you don't need to have the key upgraded part you really need.


3 year old destop brought for 720€:
79€ for Mini PC, Antec case with power suply
76€ for ASUS H81Plus motheboard
134€ for 16GB Asus DDR3 1600 CAS9
106€ Windows 8 OEM 64 bit (got updated for free).
211€ Intel Core i5 4670 3.4Ghz
29€ DVD RW drive
70€ 1TB HDD

Price new today: 720 (the same)
85€ equivalent case.
89€ for ASUS H81Plus motheboard
96€ for 16GB Asus DDR3 1600 CAS9
129€ Windows 10 OEM 64 bit
234€ Intel Core i5 4670 3.4Ghz 4 core
29€ DVD RW drive
60€ 1TB HDD

Cheapest Mac that match or surpass 3.4 Ghz 4 core, 16GB RAM:

Mac mini:no one is powerfull enough.
iMac: For 1739€ I can get 2.8GHz i5 and 16GB RAM (less powerfull) For 2179€ I get a 3.3 Ghz i7 higher end processor that as part is costing 418€ instead of 234€, so 440€ more to get a part that cost 180€ more.
Mac book pro: For 2569€, the most expensive laptop couldn't match the 3.4Ghz base frequency of the i5 desktop. This is to be expected, laptop have more constraints for heat and power consumption and so can't match a desktop for actual performance.

Conclusion:

- The resale value of the 3 year old destop would be very high has the price new didn't drop 1 bit overall. I did it in the past, if you resell over ebay, you get amost the new price for it.
- The branded computers are much more expensive.

I have nothing again Macs, they look better, their build quality is nice, their software run well. They give you an interresting experience. I had a few before so this is not like I don't know what I speak about. I plan to change my car in 2-3 years for a BMW if all goes well. Well I know that an equivalent Renault car is going to cost 30% less rougly. But this is a choice. When the previous Mac was really too slow for photo editing and the batterie inflated in the MacBookPro destroying it actually, I had to buy something else, just after I got a mortage for a flat and had lot of things to do in the flat. A fancy computer was not the priority. In 5 years I may buy a mac again. Why not?

I don't want to start war or whatever. I just provided facts. Mac are luxury products like Leica or BMW. There reason to buy them, that for sure. But when people go there and speak of the money they need to invest on a new computer, I assume they would get the basic thing. Not the BMW equivalent.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 02-21-2016 at 03:47 AM.
02-21-2016, 03:36 AM   #439
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Another problem we face when using softwares like Lightroom is not the storage space, it is cheap, but the storage speed. HDD are so slow, this is very annoying to navigate in a LR catalog.
Of course if one has money to put it all on SSDs, that's different.
This doesn't help but that's really lightroom software that is far from optimized to index big libraries. DxO has no lib feature and so never slow down for that. I use folders: 1 level for year, a second level for the name of the event.

Anyway as a software developper I have seen much better software to index things than lightroom. This is after a very basic DB technique. But none are bundled in a raw processing software, sure. So either you use a third party solution, either you split it into several libraries (1 per year or something), either you work directly with folders.

I don't think you need to have the actual photos on an SSD, you would not get any visible boost on that really. But the library yes and it should not be that big. Small SSD are rather innexpensive theses day. A 512GB one is arround 200€.

02-21-2016, 07:09 AM   #440
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
This doesn't help but that's really lightroom software that is far from optimized to index big libraries. DxO has no lib feature and so never slow down for that. I use folders: 1 level for year, a second level for the name of the event.

Anyway as a software developper I have seen much better software to index things than lightroom. This is after a very basic DB technique. But none are bundled in a raw processing software, sure. So either you use a third party solution, either you split it into several libraries (1 per year or something), either you work directly with folders.

I don't think you need to have the actual photos on an SSD, you would not get any visible boost on that really. But the library yes and it should not be that big. Small SSD are rather innexpensive theses day. A 512GB one is arround 200€.
I agree LR is not properly optimized ans is the root cause but it doesn't cure the problem.
LR is the only, AFAICT, proper software doing library + RAW processing and that's why it is so popular.

Optimizing it properly though might be 'not so stupid' idea though.
I hate keeping files by folders for years etc. exclusively (LR does it for me still) but keywords and metadata are essentials to me.
02-21-2016, 08:12 AM   #441
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I just wanted to say one more thing. Out in the field where I use my 500 mm prime lens I used to talk to a man who tests and lens aligns different DSLR combos for various people. He liked the D4 and the D800 series the most. Last year he told me Canon's best FF that he used was a nice camera but it had nothing on the D800.

Your getting a similar sensor so i'm excited for you all and I want to see your images taken with pixel shift also. I think I will buy a K-1 one of these days.
02-21-2016, 08:16 AM - 1 Like   #442
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Reading the last 10 postings, I feel like...............

I feel like Pentax just released the latest computer model!
02-21-2016, 09:42 AM - 1 Like   #443
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What has this discussion have to do with K-1? Who cares what computer and/or software you use.

02-21-2016, 10:19 AM   #444
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
What has this discussion have to do with K-1? Who cares what computer and/or software you use.
Indeed. We have very very slightly gone out of topic.
Apologies.
02-21-2016, 11:46 AM - 1 Like   #445
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DA*55 1.4 compatible only stopped down?

I was under the impression that the DA*55 was FF fully compatible, but according to DP review reports that it's useable stopped down. Not sure to what extent it needs to be stopped down. Anyone know if there are examples of this lens on a FF camera and an example of it having to be stopped down?
02-21-2016, 11:48 AM   #446
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
What has this discussion have to do with K-1? Who cares what computer and/or software you use.
well we had the usual complain that you'd need a new computer for K-1... I think each time there a new camera with more MP, somebody think they have to spend 2000$ on the computer alone. I remember people speaking of it for K5 => K3.
02-21-2016, 11:49 AM   #447
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcpropilot Quote
I was under the impression that the DA*55 was FF fully compatible, but according to DP review reports that it's compatible stopped down. Not sure to what extent it needs to be stopped down. Anyone know if there are examples of this lens on a FF camera and an example of it having to be stopped down?
It was when i tested. I tested from 1.4 to 8
02-21-2016, 12:06 PM   #448
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcpropilot Quote
I was under the impression that the DA*55 was FF fully compatible, but according to DP review reports that it's useable stopped down. Not sure to what extent it needs to be stopped down. Anyone know if there are examples of this lens on a FF camera and an example of it having to be stopped down?
Ricoh has prepared lens aberration correction in the full frame only for the 200, 300 and 560. All the rest of the DA lenses are listed in the crop lenses table. That doesn't mean DA*55 isn't fully compatible - just that Ricoh hasn't installed lens correction in the FF mode.

See page 4 (of 6) of the new Product Information HERE
02-21-2016, 12:12 PM   #449
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
It was when i tested. I tested from 1.4 to 8
Ken, would you mind checking and explaining four items in the K-1 camera configuration, please:

a) What exactly does the "flash sync speed" config do and which options are there?

b) what exactly can be configured around the "electronic shutter" in live view.

c) What does "Certification marks" do?

d) what is meant by "Change AF point button"?

Prior models didn't have either and since we don't have a manual, it's an unknown. But you should be able to find out.
02-21-2016, 12:15 PM   #450
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Mac mini:no one is powerfull enough.
Sorry, only caught some paragraphs. You are talking about working out 36mp raws?
I'm using a Mac Mini late 2012 Intel Quad Core i7 2.3GHz, 16GB RAM, fusion drive ... with Capture One. Never had a problem in editing any raw or big tiff image file up to 100MB. So, easily powerful enough for the task to work out the K-1s raw files IMO. But maybe I didn't get your point.

Last edited by acoufap; 02-21-2016 at 12:27 PM.
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