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02-24-2016, 07:22 AM   #541
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QuoteOriginally posted by lukulele Quote
Shelby or Greensboro? I was wondering where in Eastern NC those three would play..
Morehead City , Myrtle Beach & Durham

02-24-2016, 11:24 AM   #542
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QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
Attachment 300013

K-1 is the only DSLR on the list and are over 1,6x more popular then the only other FF system camera, the mighty A7RII with its 42 Mp BSI sensor and lower weight.

Attachment 300012

Ignoring the I don’t care-users, 72,9% of the favorite feature votes are related to the SR system. I feel the envy is growing amongst other brand users.
Do those people realize that SR doesn't work during video? Over in a videography forum people also got excited about the K-1 and it having SR. They would LOVE to have a camera like the K-1 with a flippy screen and SR. Just that SR needs to work during video. Tiny tweak, big effect, Pentax!

One of the reasons for high frame rates is so that you can stabilize the video after the fact, in post. If it is stable to begin with... I mean what else do you need high frame rates for? Most video content is 24, 25 or 30 fps. 60 is useful for slow motion, but how often do you need that?

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Could be 1001 reasons - small K-1 feature update (addition/deletion) to the camera hardware or firmware; supply problems with a component maker (shutter/memory chips); desire to maintain 645Z output while ramping up K-1; bad weather caused some shipping delays somewhere; lightning strike on the Cebu factory damaged some important equipment; balancing inventory between Japan, China, Europe, USA ... Etc etc etc.
There's no reason to delay a camera because of the firmware. Just provide a firmware update soon after launch.

I do hope that with the K-1 Pentax will finally start changing the way they do firmware updates. It's something that can be used to improve cameras after they are launched, and that's what people expect these days. Computers with Windows 10 are improved over time, Windows is getting better and more polished. Same with Android and iOS, people crave updates that add functionality and generally improve their phones or tablets. Brands that don't provide them are less popular. Even some camera makers do it these days. Bug fixes are nice (though even on that side Pentax seems a bit lacking), but nowadays...
02-24-2016, 11:54 AM   #543
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
There's no reason to delay a camera because of the firmware. Just provide a firmware update soon after launch. I do hope that with the K-1 Pentax will finally start changing the way they do firmware updates.
Did I get that right? You do hope Pentax/Ricoh starts shipping cameras with unfinished, rough&ready or buggy firmware?
02-24-2016, 12:06 PM   #544
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
One of the reasons for high frame rates is so that you can stabilize the video after the fact, in post. If it is stable to begin with... I mean what else do you need high frame rates for? Most video content is 24, 25 or 30 fps. 60 is useful for slow motion, but how often do you need that?
The SD to DVD resolution took a few years. So did the DVD res to HD res take. The same with HD to full HD and now from full HD to 4K. But fps have been standing still at 24 since a century ago. I think its time to increase the flickering slide shows Charlie Chaplins best days to 60 fps for now. 60 fps would be a huge lift from the flickering but even that is not completely flickering free. Later it should be increased to 100-120, but from there its not much visible difference. If you want to do just 1/2 speed slow motion maybe 60 fps recording and 30 fps viewing is enough, if the scene is quite slow to begun with.

Anyway, I don't think K-1's imaging sensor have fast enough readout for 1080 60p. Good video should have full readout of all the pixels for every frame, then dowscale it to the wanted resolution. Samsung NX1 and Sony A7RII have that so its possible with the current technology. Pentax just didn't opt for that. Full readout is also useful to get around SR challanges. It can digitally crop to a moving crop window, a digital kind of SR, before the crop is scaled down.

02-24-2016, 12:15 PM - 1 Like   #545
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QuoteOriginally posted by wkraus Quote
Did I get that right? You do hope Pentax/Ricoh starts shipping cameras with unfinished, rough&ready or buggy firmware?
As a photographer, I'd rather get my K-1 soon and download a simple firmware update a few months down the road for video.

Perhaps Pentax will take a page out of Fuji's handbook - even updating older gen cameras to create a longer lasting product.
02-24-2016, 12:58 PM   #546
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QuoteOriginally posted by wkraus Quote
Did I get that right? You do hope Pentax/Ricoh starts shipping cameras with unfinished, rough&ready or buggy firmware?
Well, as long as it is finished enough and only needs a bit of polish? I mean, would you like to shoot with your camera now, even if it's not all smooth sailing, and get a fix for that in a few months, or wait a few months without a camera? Exactly. Plus new bugs may be discovered by users, and they'd be fixed earlier than if Pentax waited until the firmware is deemed ready... and they only get discovered at that point.

QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
The SD to DVD resolution took a few years. So did the DVD res to HD res take. The same with HD to full HD and now from full HD to 4K. But fps have been standing still at 24 since a century ago. I think its time to increase the flickering slide shows Charlie Chaplins best days to 60 fps for now. 60 fps would be a huge lift from the flickering but even that is not completely flickering free. Later it should be increased to 100-120, but from there its not much visible difference. If you want to do just 1/2 speed slow motion maybe 60 fps recording and 30 fps viewing is enough, if the scene is quite slow to begun with.

Anyway, I don't think K-1's imaging sensor have fast enough readout for 1080 60p. Good video should have full readout of all the pixels for every frame, then dowscale it to the wanted resolution. Samsung NX1 and Sony A7RII have that so its possible with the current technology. Pentax just didn't opt for that. Full readout is also useful to get around SR challanges. It can digitally crop to a moving crop window, a digital kind of SR, before the crop is scaled down.
I thought the K-1 uses a similar sensor to the one in the D810? Or an updated version. That camera does 60p.

Peter Jackson tried to up the frame rate for professional video from 24 to 48. The experiment failed. People generally hated it. James Cameron is trying to do it again, this time with 60 fps for Avatar 2, and of course in 3D. Personally I'm not fond of high frame rates, I don't think it looks professional. For 3D it can be useful though, 3D tends to look very stuttery, unlike well shot 24p.

I don't mind if the camera does 60p, it would be a plus, another tool available, but far from necessary. What really helps is shake reduction, because it is useful for a certain way of shooting that is perfect for the K-1. The K-1 is relatively light and compact, plus very tough. It shoots great stills. So a wonderful travel companion, or for stuff that is shot with little gear. All you need is a good microphone (if even that... just use music). It would also be great for journalists who want/need to deliver high quality video AND stills. Thanks to SR there is no need to carry additional gear. Pop a mic on top of the camera, and they have everything they need to produce great content.
02-24-2016, 01:09 PM   #547
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All software ships with bugs, because you're still finding them on the morning you release to matket.

Unless one is a 'showstopper", they can be patched later on - a phone app's cycle is fast and furious.

But firmware is different. Because a certain proportion of upgrades lead to bricking, there's pressure to be less ambitious and get this right.
02-24-2016, 01:17 PM   #548
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
All software ships with bugs, because you're still finding them on the morning you release to matket.

Unless one is a 'showstopper", they can be patched later on - a phone app's cycle is fast and furious.

But firmware is different. Because a certain proportion of upgrades lead to bricking, there's pressure to be less ambitious and get this right.

I am just trying to figure out how a certain auction site has a seller listing the K-1 saying they have QTY (5) available in stock to ship, for like $500 OVER list price for the buy it now...


Can anyone explain that? I'm thinking a con-artist selling pre-orders very over-priced? Vapor ware?


Eric

02-24-2016, 01:18 PM   #549
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QuoteOriginally posted by wkraus Quote
Did I get that right? You do hope Pentax/Ricoh starts shipping cameras with unfinished, rough&ready or buggy firmware?
Valid point, but if a firmware update is viewed as adding a feature, then it would not be taken as having been unfinished or buggy in the first place.
02-24-2016, 01:35 PM   #550
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QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
The SD to DVD resolution took a few years. So did the DVD res to HD res take. The same with HD to full HD and now from full HD to 4K. But fps have been standing still at 24 since a century ago. I think its time to increase the flickering slide shows Charlie Chaplins best days to 60 fps for now. 60 fps would be a huge lift from the flickering but even that is not completely flickering free. Later it should be increased to 100-120, but from there its not much visible difference. If you want to do just 1/2 speed slow motion maybe 60 fps recording and 30 fps viewing is enough, if the scene is quite slow to begun with.

Anyway, I don't think K-1's imaging sensor have fast enough readout for 1080 60p. Good video should have full readout of all the pixels for every frame, then dowscale it to the wanted resolution. Samsung NX1 and Sony A7RII have that so its possible with the current technology. Pentax just didn't opt for that. Full readout is also useful to get around SR challanges. It can digitally crop to a moving crop window, a digital kind of SR, before the crop is scaled down.
The A7R-II doesn't do full readout of all the pixels. It can do that only a super 35mm crop of the frame meaning a bit bigger than APSC. I don't think outside A7s and A7sII, Samsung NX1 there any APSC or FF still camera that has capacity to do a full readout whatever the output resolution and framerate you select.
02-24-2016, 01:40 PM   #551
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
All software ships with bugs, because you're still finding them on the morning you release to matket.

Unless one is a 'showstopper", they can be patched later on - a phone app's cycle is fast and furious.

But firmware is different. Because a certain proportion of upgrades lead to bricking, there's pressure to be less ambitious and get this right.
Software or firmware it doesn't change the fact that people will get your product, might never update and the update are typically quite slow to come. Providing something that is too buggy is un-professional. So while i agree firmware is more complicated, it is never good.

If a few pro try the K-1 and it fail to them in the field because of some bug, whatever the reason they will complain and it will damage the reputation of the brand and of the model. They may stop using it going back to Canikon and once that done, you have lost them forever, they not try it again. If they are recognized, they can have great influence on many other people.

If many people prefer to wait a few month before buying that sure to get lower price, but also to ensure the product is really up to the specs, has no major issue (software and hardware) and the minor bug have been corrected.
02-24-2016, 02:29 PM   #552
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eric4 Quote
Perhaps Pentax will take a page out of Fuji's handbook
I know Fuji gets all the love for being good at enhancing their cameras via regular firmware updates, but Fuji are relative newcomers to that game. Ricoh itself has been doing the same thing, for far longer than Fuji. People only noticed Fuji's firmware updates when they rolled out the X series of cameras, but Ricoh have a tradition of doing great firmware updates too (adding new features and customizations), since the very beginning of the GR and GXR lines. Just look at the current GR - it's up to firmware v5.0 already, and it's full of all sorts of new menu options, new features etc.

So if Pentax wanted to emulate anyone in terms of regularly providing 'rich' firmware updates to their cameras, they don't need to look far for inspiration.
02-24-2016, 02:39 PM - 1 Like   #553
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Why do people keep talking about "Pentax" like it is some independent entity. There is no company called Pentax. There is no separate team within Ricoh Imaging called "Pentax." There are simply are a few models of Ricoh Imaging cameras with the name Pentax on the front.

Yet people complained when Ricoh dared put their name on the back of a camera designed and built by Ricoh Imaging. People here demand Ricoh recognize the fiction that Pentax is somehow separate and different. I guess Ignoring firmware updates is a good way to maintain that fiction.

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I know Fuji gets all the love for being good at enhancing their cameras via regular firmware updates, but Fuji are relative newcomers to that game. Ricoh itself has been doing the same thing, for far longer than Fuji. People only noticed Fuji's firmware updates when they rolled out the X series of cameras, but Ricoh have a tradition of doing great firmware updates too (adding new features and customizations), since the very beginning of the GR and GXR lines. Just look at the current GR - it's up to firmware v5.0 already, and it's full of all sorts of new menu options, new features etc.

So if Pentax wanted to emulate anyone in terms of regularly providing 'rich' firmware updates to their cameras, they don't need to look far for inspiration.
02-24-2016, 02:53 PM   #554
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Why do people keep talking about "Pentax" like it is some independent entity.
I recognise that Ricoh/Pentax are all one, and am totally OK with that. My point was simply that it's not just Fuji who know how to do fancy and regular firmware upgrades. Ricoh has a tradition of that too. Pentax less so, but now since they are all under the one roof, and fully integrated, Pentax DSLR firmware might start to adopt Ricoh tradition a bit more.
02-24-2016, 02:59 PM   #555
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Yeah, it wasn't meant to pick specifically on you. I've actually seen people talking about "Pentax should do this" or "Pentax should do that" in several different threads today, including complaints over on DPR about the Ricoh anniversary Pentax K-3 "How dare they, Ricoh's not Pentax!!" and it was just starting to get under my skin.

I completely agree as to the firmware updates. Embrace the Ricoh identity!

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I recognise that Ricoh/Pentax are all one, and am totally OK with that. My point was simply that it's not just Fuji who know how to do fancy and regular firmware upgrades. Ricoh has a tradition of that too. Pentax less so, but now since they are all under the one roof, and fully integrated, Pentax DSLR firmware might start to adopt Ricoh tradition a bit more.
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