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02-24-2016, 03:48 PM - 1 Like   #556
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Why do people keep talking about "Pentax" like it is some independent entity. There is no company called Pentax. There is no separate team within Ricoh Imaging called "Pentax." There are simply are a few models of Ricoh Imaging cameras with the name Pentax on the front.

I think it's a little more than that, DCshooter.


Ricoh are the *owners*. They acquired the factories in the Philippines, Vietnam, and presumably the workforce.


The background story on the special K-1 website suggests that longtime Pentax employees put the FF together, not existing Ricoh guys. They talk about having a decade of the project being shelved and then being told, go for it!


One of the three managers was tasked with getting the bare necessity lens lineup ready for launch, presumably saw they had the engineering ability to do one by that time (70-200) and outsourced the remaining two excellent, proven zooms to Tamron.


Would have helped that Jun Hirakawa was over there.

02-24-2016, 03:55 PM   #557
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I mean, would you like to shoot with your camera now, even if it's not all smooth sailing, and get a fix for that in a few months, or wait a few months without a camera?
Sure, but we were dicussing 16 days... and I was not all that serious.
02-24-2016, 04:12 PM   #558
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Without GPS?
With the device that both gives you GPS and Astrotracing function that for some reason doesn't work on cameras it should because Ricoh decided not to let them.
02-24-2016, 06:29 PM   #559
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Ricoh are much much more than the owners, which implies some kind of autonomous existence for Pentx.

The news out of Ricoh a couple of years ago was that the engineering departments were merged and fully integrated, difficulties stemming which gave rise to the whole period of "growing pains" experienced after the merger. Management has been fully integrated. Ditto software development. Ditto the foreign distributorships Some of the formerly Pentax cameras (notably the WG series and theta) were rebranded Ricoh. The only cameras, Ricoh or Pentax branded, not being made by the integrated group are the ones farmed out to Asia Optical. Yeah, some lenses are being made in the Tamron factory under a licensing agreement, but that only reinforces my point. Sure, some of the former "Pentax guys" are working on the DSLR projects. But that's because they are the guys with DSLR experience, nothing more. Pentax isn't even its own division of Ricoh Imaging, a la Chevrolet vis a vis General motors. In the consumer optics field, Pentax is nothing more than a brand name for a line of Ricoh Imaging camera equipment.
But it is more than just any old brand, much more. It is a brand with a long history and a valuable heritage, which Ricoh has decided to build upon and are trrying hard to make successful in the long term. Owned by and integrated into Ricoh it may be, well is, but they appear to be continuing this valuable brand as a business unit within Ricoh, having absorbed the smaller Ricoh camera unit into it, rather than the other way round.

The Pentax brand is far from just a label stuck on camera job lots bought in from any number of other companies as many old electronics and optical brands have sadly become these days. Let's hope Pentax doesn't end up like that and let's not talk them down unnecessarily as you seem to be doing. There is absolutely nothing wrong with referring to "Pentax says", "Pentax does" or "Pentax has released" as some members do. Nothing wrong at all... but we all well know that it's really Ricoh!


Last edited by Dave L; 02-24-2016 at 06:40 PM.
02-24-2016, 07:21 PM   #560
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There is no more Pentax as a corporate culture. There is a Ricoh corporate culture, structure, values, vision and process. Pentax is a brand. The customer-facing identifiers have been preserved (no more Ricoh on the backs of Pentax cameras) but internally the company is Ricoh Imaging.
02-24-2016, 07:36 PM   #561
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QuoteOriginally posted by Erictator Quote
I am just trying to figure out how a certain auction site has a seller listing the K-1 saying they have QTY (5) available in stock to ship, for like $500 OVER list price for the buy it now...


Can anyone explain that? I'm thinking a con-artist selling pre-orders very over-priced? Vapor ware?


Eric
That's for sure surprising... above all shipping from the US.
Frequently, it appeared one or two japanese e-bay seller's for new Pentax products, and i have tried them on a few occasions, with no problem.
I will not try this time because of additionnal VAT and import taxes in Europe, but it doesn't seem to be waporware.
02-24-2016, 07:55 PM   #562
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Pentax is nothing more than a brand name for a line of Ricoh Imaging camera equipment.

It was always a brand name, DCshooter, whether for Asahi, Hoya or Ricoh, and there were only five years out of nearly sixty in its history where the actual company was called 'Pentax'.
02-24-2016, 08:29 PM   #563
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
They may stop using it going back to Canikon and once that done, ...
And face the same problem there. You are intimating Canon and Nikon are problem free.
Canikon must be very pleased with your logic. It is this sort of baseless not well thought out statement which gives these two manufacturers this "über" and largely unjustifiable reputation.

Cheers

02-24-2016, 08:32 PM   #564
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
It was always a brand name, DCshooter, whether for Asahi, Hoya or Ricoh, and there were only five years out of nearly sixty in its history where the actual company was called 'Pentax'.
Yes, but the brand represented the Asahi culture, the family influence and values, all of which is gone now. The culture and values are Ricoh's. The brand image is a shell, preserved as a marketing tactic, not representing the woven fabric of the enterprise.

That isn't a bad thing. It's still an identity that user associate with the cameras. The task is convincing consumers those identity values have value.
02-24-2016, 09:25 PM - 2 Likes   #565
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Pentax may not exist on a corporate structural level any more, but everyone who buys one knows exactly what a Pentax DLSR camera is - small, high-quality bodies, decent lenses (narrow variety, but excellent optics), nice ergonomics, and value for money with some really clever tricks thrown in for good measure. It's not just a name; it's a design philosophy.

The teaser site doesn't call the K-1 "Full-frame by PENTAX" for nothing. They could have gone with "Pentax full-frame by Ricoh Imaging" but they chose instead what they did. This is Pentax's baby, and the people at Ricoh Imaging don't mind who knows it. Ricoh Imaging may be on all the document headers... but at the end of the day, Pentax lives.
02-24-2016, 09:41 PM   #566
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02-24-2016, 10:18 PM - 7 Likes   #567
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---------- Post added 02-24-16 at 10:19 PM ----------

02-24-2016, 10:24 PM - 1 Like   #568
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
But that doesn't change the fact that your brand new K-1 will have been made by the very same company, likely in the same facility, and by many of the same engineers as your GR, a good chunk of whom were interviewed and hired by Ricoh HR, not Hoya or Pentax .

Do you know this, or are you guessing?


My own guess is that the Ricoh engineers didn't know anything about DSLRs, the Pentax ones designed the K-1 and 645Z, the cameras are manufactured in what was the Pentax facility in Cebu, and the lenses at the other one in Vietnam.

Last edited by clackers; 02-24-2016 at 10:31 PM.
02-24-2016, 10:30 PM   #569
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QuoteOriginally posted by OoKU Quote


---------- Post added 02-24-16 at 10:19 PM ----------

Thanks, this deserves its own thread.
02-24-2016, 10:40 PM - 1 Like   #570
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Yes, but the brand represented the Asahi culture, the family influence and values, all of which is gone now. The culture and values are Ricoh's. The brand image is a shell, preserved as a marketing tactic, not representing the woven fabric of the enterprise.

:-) Doesn't look like you read these:


Challengers | PENTAX K-1 Special site | RICOH IMAGING


http://www.pentax.com/en/k-1/philosophy/


Ricoh is very happy with the branding, existing customer base and the co-opting of the philosophy. It's what they paid for - you know all this, Monochrome.

Last edited by clackers; 02-24-2016 at 11:15 PM.
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