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02-24-2016, 08:29 PM   #571
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
They may stop using it going back to Canikon and once that done, ...
And face the same problem there. You are intimating Canon and Nikon are problem free.
Canikon must be very pleased with your logic. It is this sort of baseless not well thought out statement which gives these two manufacturers this "über" and largely unjustifiable reputation.

Cheers

02-24-2016, 08:32 PM   #572
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
It was always a brand name, DCshooter, whether for Asahi, Hoya or Ricoh, and there were only five years out of nearly sixty in its history where the actual company was called 'Pentax'.
Yes, but the brand represented the Asahi culture, the family influence and values, all of which is gone now. The culture and values are Ricoh's. The brand image is a shell, preserved as a marketing tactic, not representing the woven fabric of the enterprise.

That isn't a bad thing. It's still an identity that user associate with the cameras. The task is convincing consumers those identity values have value.
02-24-2016, 09:05 PM   #573
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Come on, now you are purposely being obtuse. While the company was called Asahi, Pentax was the most identifiable product they made, and for most of its existence, the only camera line it made save for countries where it didn't own the trademark and the primary business of the company. That's why they ultimately changed the name of the company to Pentax (anaogously to how Nippon Kogkau became Nikon). When Hoya purchased Pentax, it was no longer the dominant business in its corporate structure, but Pentax was still the sole consumer camera line owned by the company and retained a degree of independence as a division, under which it also produced a number of independent lines of products, including medical imaging devices.

Ricoh purchased only the Pentax Imaging Systems and folded it together with its own pre-existing camera division (one nearly as old as Asahi's) to form a wholly owned subsidiary, which from the start only partially retained the Pentax identity (as PRIC) for a very short period of time, after which it was renamed to Ricoh Imaging. Ricoh Imaging still makes cameras under the Ricoh badge, and in general Ricoh is the more generally recognizable brand owned by the parent company, given their dominant position in office imaging and Pentax's mniscule marketshare over the past decade plus.

There is no longer a corporation, division, or subsidiary company producing consumer cameras with Pentax anywhere in its name, and no factory solely producing Pentax-branded equipment. All Pentax consumer camera equipment is either produced by Ricoh Imaging, or Tamron or Asia Optical under license.

If you fail to see the difference, I don't know what to tell you. I'm quite glad that Ricoh has chosen to hold on to the K mount and continue making cameras in the Pentax tradition instead of cheapening the brand like the owners of Polaroid and Vivitar have done. But that doesn't change the fact that your brand new K-1 will have been made by the very same company, likely in the same facility, and by many of the same engineers as your GR, a good chunk of whom were interviewed and hired by Ricoh HR, not Hoya or Pentax .And the paychecks those engineers receive won't have the word "Pentax" anywhere on them.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
It was always a brand name, DCshooter, whether for Asahi, Hoya or Ricoh, and there were only five years out of nearly sixty in its history where the actual company was called 'Pentax'.
02-24-2016, 09:25 PM - 2 Likes   #574
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Pentax may not exist on a corporate structural level any more, but everyone who buys one knows exactly what a Pentax DLSR camera is - small, high-quality bodies, decent lenses (narrow variety, but excellent optics), nice ergonomics, and value for money with some really clever tricks thrown in for good measure. It's not just a name; it's a design philosophy.

The teaser site doesn't call the K-1 "Full-frame by PENTAX" for nothing. They could have gone with "Pentax full-frame by Ricoh Imaging" but they chose instead what they did. This is Pentax's baby, and the people at Ricoh Imaging don't mind who knows it. Ricoh Imaging may be on all the document headers... but at the end of the day, Pentax lives.

02-24-2016, 09:41 PM   #575
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From DOOM, life!
02-24-2016, 10:18 PM - 7 Likes   #576
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---------- Post added 02-24-16 at 10:19 PM ----------

02-24-2016, 10:24 PM - 1 Like   #577
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
But that doesn't change the fact that your brand new K-1 will have been made by the very same company, likely in the same facility, and by many of the same engineers as your GR, a good chunk of whom were interviewed and hired by Ricoh HR, not Hoya or Pentax .

Do you know this, or are you guessing?


My own guess is that the Ricoh engineers didn't know anything about DSLRs, the Pentax ones designed the K-1 and 645Z, the cameras are manufactured in what was the Pentax facility in Cebu, and the lenses at the other one in Vietnam.

Last edited by clackers; 02-24-2016 at 10:31 PM.
02-24-2016, 10:30 PM   #578
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QuoteOriginally posted by OoKU Quote


---------- Post added 02-24-16 at 10:19 PM ----------

Thanks, this deserves its own thread.

02-24-2016, 10:40 PM - 1 Like   #579
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Yes, but the brand represented the Asahi culture, the family influence and values, all of which is gone now. The culture and values are Ricoh's. The brand image is a shell, preserved as a marketing tactic, not representing the woven fabric of the enterprise.

:-) Doesn't look like you read these:


Challengers | PENTAX K-1 Special site | RICOH IMAGING


http://www.pentax.com/en/k-1/philosophy/


Ricoh is very happy with the branding, existing customer base and the co-opting of the philosophy. It's what they paid for - you know all this, Monochrome.

Last edited by clackers; 02-24-2016 at 11:15 PM.
02-24-2016, 11:00 PM   #580
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An interesting point is what the employees identify as. Many people at work identify not with the company they work at, but also with the projects they do, hence it is not actually impossible that some of the engineers identify with Pentax as a brand (and a set of identifying qualities) and in a way Pentax would live on as more than "just a name". "Spirit lives on" or somesuch. Of course, in actuality, there is no Pentax, there is only ZOOL Ricoh.

Last edited by fromunderthebridge; 02-24-2016 at 11:01 PM. Reason: Markup
02-24-2016, 11:50 PM   #581
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K1 design.

Funny that Ricoh didn't have that sort of expertise- I bought a new Ricoh Singlex SLR, virtually a dead copy of the Pentax Spotmatic, which was concurrent, but the Ricoh was cheaper, though not as nicely made. Good camera though. 1969? not sure.
So they definitely have made SLRs before. Still, Pentax have specialised for longer.
And haven't Ricoh subbed for a lot of other firms? Anyway, the main thing is, they are promoting and advancing Pentax well, I reckon, and I'm temped to go for a K-1.
02-25-2016, 12:13 AM - 2 Likes   #582
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QuoteOriginally posted by fromunderthebridge Quote
no Pentax, there is only ZOOL Ricoh.
*Ahem* I believe it is supposed to be spelled Zuul.
02-25-2016, 12:15 AM - 1 Like   #583
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QuoteOriginally posted by fromunderthebridge Quote
Of course, in actuality, there is no Pentax, there is only ZOOL Ricoh.
Actually spelled "Zuul" in the novelisation, but this wins my prize for quote of the week. Thanks for a laugh at the end of a long day!

---------- Post added 25-02-16 at 03:46 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
*Ahem* I believe it is supposed to be spelled Zuul.
Beat me to it while I was typing, damn you!
02-25-2016, 12:16 AM   #584
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The Singlex was a good camera but very different from the Spotmatic mechanically. Anyway, I doubt that anybody who worked on the Spotmatic or Singlex is still part of the workforce. Odds are that those who worked on the K-1 were survivors of the Hoya debacle.
02-25-2016, 12:27 AM   #585
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Beat me to it while I was typing, damn you!
hey, there was serious geek cred on the line there.
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