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02-25-2016, 04:36 PM   #616
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote

But what it is has so much potential and is so good now that none of that matters.
Indeed.

02-25-2016, 04:48 PM   #617
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
It isn't Pentax any more.
Was it still Pentax, after Hoya took over and started their cost cutting and reorganization? Where's the line between being, and not being Pentax?
02-25-2016, 04:51 PM - 2 Likes   #618
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Was it still Pentax, after Hoya took over and started their cost cutting and reorganization? Where's the line between being, and not being Pentax?
Thank you for completing my thesis.
02-25-2016, 04:59 PM   #619
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
It says nothing abut those lenses being made by Tokina. The 16-50/2.8, at least, is made by Pentax.
Thanks for that, Pål... so the 16-50 f/2.8 is being manufactured by Tokina for their own version covering other mounts, and by Pentax for the DA* 16-50? Is that correct?

I'm surprised, because Photozone's review of the Tokina 16-50 reads as follows:

The Tokina AF 16-50mm f/2.8 AT-X Pro DX has been announced at the PMA ... not 2007 but 2006 ... <snip> ... A lesser known aspect is the design background of the lens. It has been co-developed with Pentax where we'll seen a slightly different incarnation later this year (Pentax SMC DA* 16-50mm f/2.8 AL ED [IF] SDM). The Pentax-Tokina relationship is not a new one actually - e.g. the Tokina AF 12-24mm f/4 AT-X Pro DX and Tokina AF 50-135mm f/2.8 AT-X Pro DX, both highly regarded lenses, have the same origins so what we have here is a third-party lens with a little spice and glory from a genuine manufacturer.

If what Photozone says is true, this would suggest that, at the very least, certain Tokina and Pentax lenses have been developed through partnership between the companies (and I can't, in all honesty, see Pentax being the primary party in the optical design - given that Tokina is, these days, mainly a lens designer / manufacturer). If what you say is true, it would further suggest that the DA* 16-50 - developed in partnership with Tokina - is being manufactured by Pentax independently. If that's the case, you have to wonder if Tokina's manufacture of their own branded 16-50 makes sense in today's cost-conscious business world, where two companies manufacturing (almost) the same lens is an obvious target for cost optimisation.

Either way, I think we can agree that a number of Pentax's lenses - going back several years before this increasing partnership with Tamron for FF glass - are not completely Pentax products, as they're co-developed with other lens manufacturers (and, in my view, they're no worse for it).

EDIT: ... and my original point for all this (even if what I said turns out not to be 100% accurate - apologies if that's the case), is that the Tamron-isation of Pentax (as @giuseppesavo put it) isn't a cause for concern, and - in fact - is nothing new in concept.


Last edited by BigMackCam; 02-25-2016 at 05:28 PM.
02-25-2016, 05:45 PM   #620
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Thanks for that, Pål... so the 16-50 f/2.8 is being manufactured by Tokina for their own version covering other mounts, and by Pentax for the DA* 16-50? Is that correct?

I'm surprised, because Photozone's review of the Tokina 16-50 reads as follows:

The Tokina AF 16-50mm f/2.8 AT-X Pro DX has been announced at the PMA ... not 2007 but 2006 ... <snip> ... A lesser known aspect is the design background of the lens. It has been co-developed with Pentax where we'll seen a slightly different incarnation later this year (Pentax SMC DA* 16-50mm f/2.8 AL ED [IF] SDM). The Pentax-Tokina relationship is not a new one actually - e.g. the Tokina AF 12-24mm f/4 AT-X Pro DX and Tokina AF 50-135mm f/2.8 AT-X Pro DX, both highly regarded lenses, have the same origins so what we have here is a third-party lens with a little spice and glory from a genuine manufacturer.

If what Photozone says is true, this would suggest that, at the very least, certain Tokina and Pentax lenses have been developed through partnership between the companies (and I can't, in all honesty, see Pentax being the primary party in the optical design - given that Tokina is, these days, mainly a lens designer / manufacturer). If what you say is true, it would further suggest that the DA* 16-50 - developed in partnership with Tokina - is being manufactured by Pentax independently. If that's the case, you have to wonder if Tokina's manufacture of their own branded 16-50 makes sense in today's cost-conscious business world, where two companies manufacturing (almost) the same lens is an obvious target for cost optimisation.

Either way, I think we can agree that a number of Pentax's lenses - going back several years before this increasing partnership with Tamron for FF glass - are not completely Pentax products, as they're co-developed with other lens manufacturers (and, in my view, they're no worse for it).

EDIT: ... and my original point for all this (even if what I said turns out not to be 100% accurate - apologies if that's the case), is that the Tamron-isation of Pentax (as @giuseppesavo put it) isn't a cause for concern, and - in fact - is nothing new in concept.
There is a thread about this: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/298952-whos...ntax-lens.html
02-25-2016, 06:09 PM   #621
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Thanks - that's an interesting thread
02-25-2016, 07:21 PM   #622
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http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/products/lens/images/K_Mount_Lens.pdf

---------- Post added 02-25-16 at 07:28 PM ----------

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/products/lens/images/K_Mount_D_FA_Lens_Roadmap.pdf
02-25-2016, 07:34 PM   #623
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
And easy to buy worldwide.
Hmm. Just tried to find a supplier for the FA 35mm F2 AL in my part of the world. No success.


Last edited by 6x7; 02-25-2016 at 07:42 PM.
02-25-2016, 09:53 PM   #624
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
ogl sorry I didn't mean to imply that B&H was the center of the universe. But they are a good gauge for US prices.

The US dollar has been pretty strong the last year which has brought down the price of Pentax lenses in the US.
You said that FA31 and FA77 are discontinued. The official information says that it's not true.

---------- Post added 02-25-2016 at 09:53 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by 6x7 Quote
Hmm. Just tried to find a supplier for the FA 35mm F2 AL in my part of the world. No success.
Order in USA
02-25-2016, 09:57 PM   #625
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
You said that FA31 and FA77 are discontinued. The official information says that it's not true.

---------- Post added 02-25-2016 at 09:53 PM ----------



Order in USA
He said dicounted, not discontinued
02-25-2016, 11:15 PM   #626
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To be short right now ('cos on my phone):
Those tokina/Pentax lenses were all optically designed by Pentax but the 12-24 which is a Tokina design.
Designs were licensed to Tokina (as patents show) which put them in their own barrel, own electronics, coatings and motors.
Opposite for 12-24 of course.
That's a very concise summary

So photozone bla bla is wrong.
02-26-2016, 01:25 AM   #627
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
To be short right now ('cos on my phone):
Those tokina/Pentax lenses were all optically designed by Pentax but the 12-24 which is a Tokina design.
Designs were licensed to Tokina (as patents show) which put them in their own barrel, own electronics, coatings and motors.
Opposite for 12-24 of course.
That's a very concise summary

So photozone bla bla is wrong.
Fascinating - thanks for setting me straight. Just goes to show you can't believe everything you read on the internet!
02-26-2016, 02:26 AM   #628
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QuoteOriginally posted by melander Quote
He said dicounted, not discontinued
Yes. Thank you. Need to use eye-glasses already.
02-26-2016, 02:28 AM   #629
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The FA35 is heavily discounted on Yodobashi right now, wish I was in Japan: http://www.yodobashi.com/ペンタックス-PENTAX-FA35mmF2AL-標準レンズ-35mm-F2-0-ペンタックスK/pd...0001000001423/

(I still regret not buying that lens at Yodobashi when I bought my K10D there more than 8 years ago, the price was fantastic at that time)
02-26-2016, 09:00 AM   #630
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
In which case you may want to propose corrections to the Wikipedia article... If it's genuinely wrong, I stand corrected!

If you search Google for "Wikipedia Pentax Tokina" and bring up the wiki entry, it reads as follows:

Tokina has[when?] become a partner of Pentax, a division of Ricoh, and has agreed to jointly develop some lenses. These will[when?] be available under the Pentax brand in Pentax K mount and under the Tokina brand for all other lens mounts. However, the research center, design and engineering teams of these two companies are[when?] completely independent.
The co-developed lenses share main optical designs but have different barrel structures and coatings.[citation needed] They also have some other different features. For example, the Tokina AT-X Pro 12-24mm II comes with built-in silent focusing motor, while the Pentax version has screwdrive autofocus. Another example is that Tokina AT-X Pro 16-50mm and 50-135mm have only screw-drive autofocus and no weather-sealing, but Pentax versions have both features.


This is my only reference, so you may well be correct...
the tokina-pentax projects for aps-c lenses should be: 10-17, 12-24, 16-50 and 50-135.

I think that Hoya, the owner of pentax and tokina brands between 2007 and 2011, moved some technologies (inclunding lens coating) between the two brands, and the innovative coating on the frontal lens of tokina 50-135 sounds too much similar to the SP coating on the frontal lens in pentax 18-135...

Furthermore, the 16-50 tokina for canon is "sdm", for nikon is screw-driven. Pentax 16-50 has the possibility to be converted in "screw-drived".
The 10-17 pentax is not SDM, and the same the 10-17 tokina.
The 50-135 tokina has the ultrasonic motor but not the screw drive, like the 50-135 pentax.

Conversely, the differences in 12-24's are bigger: the pentax has 8 blades, the tokina 9 rounded blades.

What makes me perplexed about actual "tamronisation" of Pentax is the fact that in the past the common lenses were sold branded tamron and pentax (I had a 18-250 tamron). Now new tamron lenses are not avaialable for pentax.
In the past Sigma lenses were more or less all available for K-system. now...
Tokina lenses continue to be produced only for nikon and canon mount...

Just this. I hope that the present agreement with Tamron is not blocking any future development of k-mount system.

We'll see...
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