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02-27-2016, 01:38 AM   #661
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In Norway the D750 costed 18989 at introduction and was down to 16993 on black friday, and is currently at 18488 NOK. The K-1 is 19994 NOK, more then the D750 ever have been. The dollar have been very expensive here lately, but the 19994 NOK price is only 2,4% more then the American 1799 $price + 25% vat (19531 NOK).

02-27-2016, 01:49 AM   #662
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
It's all rumors. No one really knows.
All I know is this: the FA limited lenses are here to stay.

02-27-2016, 03:34 AM   #663
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Not what I am saying. They could very well be selling different filters under different names.
Yes, I guess they could be - but that doesn't seem likely, somehow. I'd be surprised if the same company produced the same type of product under two brand names, using different materials, without differentiating them somehow (i.e pitching one as a premium brand, one as economy)...
02-27-2016, 04:09 AM   #664
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
All I know is this: the FA limited lenses are here to stay.
For sure, with HD coating

02-27-2016, 04:31 AM   #665
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
For sure, with HD coating

And the red ring as it used on HD DA limited
02-27-2016, 04:37 AM   #666
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
For sure, with HD coating
Honestly, I'am happy with my current version But why not for thoses that don't have one yet
02-27-2016, 05:00 AM   #667
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QuoteOriginally posted by afan137 Quote
And the red ring as it used on HD DA limited
Not so sure of that one :
No color ring for FA Ltds

Last edited by Zygonyx; 02-27-2016 at 05:21 AM.
02-27-2016, 05:02 AM   #668
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QuoteOriginally posted by afan137 Quote
And the red ring as it used on HD DA limited
And a removed aperture ring...

02-27-2016, 05:12 AM   #669
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
For sure, with HD coating
Personally, I've been satisfied with the performance of the current SMC coatings.

It remains to be seen whether a change of coatings will affect the rendering character of the FA Limiteds - that is a critical point.
02-27-2016, 06:24 AM - 2 Likes   #670
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I guess for many the FA limited are just the fad of an era. Like a 2000 Ford F-150 or something. They want a new one every year. They always want the latest.

The guy who buys an FA ltd. is not buying something that is old in terms of usefulness. They're buying something that has turned back all challengers. The DA 70, the DA 35, the DA 40, all challengers to the FA ltd, and none of them as appealing. The simple fact is, current lens design is devoid of soul. Technical, sterile looking representations for the most part. When computers took over it was apparently fairly easy to design for resolution so every one did that, At this point a high resolution edge to edge sharp lens is cheap and easy to produce. At some point lens designers will have to go back and find the formula for whatever is was that makes the 31 and 77 so special, and try and build that. If they had succeeded to date those lenses wold be historical notes in Pentax's history. Instead, people like me are alway trying to figure out how to squeeze one into our budget. The FA ltd don't exist because of some quirk of Pentax management. They exist because of what they bring to the table, and the people like me, who don't want to buy those lenses, but at some point you just have to, because of what they bring to the table.

But, that being said, there's a lot of resolution freaks who are analyzing the numbers and can't even imagine what that is. They just see old lenses and they have no idea why they sell. Jun Hirakawa said in the patent for the 77, designed for the way people take pictures, not for the test charts. Unfortunately there are a lot of designers out there today who don't even know what the design parameters he was using are. And you can bet, he's not going to tell.
02-27-2016, 06:51 AM - 1 Like   #671
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
But, that being said, there's a lot of resolution freaks who are analyzing the numbers and can't even imagine what that is. They just see old lenses and they have no idea why they sell. Jun Hirakawa said in the patent for the 77, designed for the way people take pictures, not for the test charts. Unfortunately there are a lot of designers out there today who don't even know what the design parameters he was using are. And you can bet, he's not going to tell.
Test charts are a tool, to check if a sample match the specifications for example. But unfortunally there a business to make lenses reviews and to be paid by advertisement with a good share of photographic gear ads. Not only you can't really be 100% objective when your revenue depends of the manufacturer of the gear you evaluate, but this is small business.

This is not a serious review where say you'll have 20-30 photographers with various background test the thing for a few months with a few hundred sample shots from maybe 10 thousand taken. Several camera for lenses, many lenses for a camera... There no field report of every feature or shoting condition and for formal tests there almost only sharpness.

I mean, you need to make money and so to spend less than advertisement provide and for people to come back often, you need to have almost all gear available reviewed. Photozone for example look to be a one man show with the idea that the website give him salary. if he is making few thousands a months on average, he can't spend 50000$ on each review. He likely can't afford than to spend 1-2 day of work for each thing he test and he must industrialize like testing 2-3 lens on the same sessions/outing.

That's funny already how photozone or say ephotozine give few field shot and how the most difference there in the shot is not the gear but basically the weather.

When serious people want to buy gear, they try to figure what is best. What their choice is? Price comparator. Manufacturer propagnanda, forum where valuable information is hidden among troll posts and reviews websites.

Lenses like FAltd only get discovered by fanatics of the brand, then it is mostly by word of mouth that by spending lot of time discussing gear you'll understand that there truely something interresting there...

If you are a pro, time is money, and it may not be worth the time to spend days on forums and on the net to try to outrun say Canon L lenses.
02-27-2016, 07:02 AM   #672
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I guess for many the FA limited are just the fad of an era. Like a 2000 Ford F-150 or something. They want a new one every year. They always want the latest.

The guy who buys an FA ltd. is not buying something that is old in terms of usefulness. They're buying something that has turned back all challengers. The DA 70, the DA 35, the DA 40, all challengers to the FA ltd, and none of them as appealing. The simple fact is, current lens design is devoid of soul. Technical, sterile looking representations for the most part. When computers took over it was apparently fairly easy to design for resolution so every one did that, At this point a high resolution edge to edge sharp lens is cheap and easy to produce. At some point lens designers will have to go back and find the formula for whatever is was that makes the 31 and 77 so special, and try and build that. If they had succeeded to date those lenses wold be historical notes in Pentax's history. Instead, people like me are alway trying to figure out how to squeeze one into our budget. The FA ltd don't exist because of some quirk of Pentax management. They exist because of what they bring to the table, and the people like me, who don't want to buy those lenses, but at some point you just have to, because of what they bring to the table.

But, that being said, there's a lot of resolution freaks who are analyzing the numbers and can't even imagine what that is. They just see old lenses and they have no idea why they sell. Jun Hirakawa said in the patent for the 77, designed for the way people take pictures, not for the test charts. Unfortunately there are a lot of designers out there today who don't even know what the design parameters he was using are. And you can bet, he's not going to tell.
+1, and not forgetting the FA43.

Truly, there is so, so much more to these three legends than merely "unusual focal lengths".

Moreover, test charts just can't tell the story here. Not easy to measure "soul".
02-27-2016, 07:27 AM   #673
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I guess for many the FA limited are just the fad of an era. Like a 2000 Ford F-150 or something. They want a new one every year. They always want the latest.

The guy who buys an FA ltd. is not buying something that is old in terms of usefulness. They're buying something that has turned back all challengers. The DA 70, the DA 35, the DA 40, all challengers to the FA ltd, and none of them as appealing. The simple fact is, current lens design is devoid of soul. Technical, sterile looking representations for the most part. When computers took over it was apparently fairly easy to design for resolution so every one did that, At this point a high resolution edge to edge sharp lens is cheap and easy to produce. At some point lens designers will have to go back and find the formula for whatever is was that makes the 31 and 77 so special, and try and build that. If they had succeeded to date those lenses wold be historical notes in Pentax's history. Instead, people like me are alway trying to figure out how to squeeze one into our budget. The FA ltd don't exist because of some quirk of Pentax management. They exist because of what they bring to the table, and the people like me, who don't want to buy those lenses, but at some point you just have to, because of what they bring to the table.

But, that being said, there's a lot of resolution freaks who are analyzing the numbers and can't even imagine what that is. They just see old lenses and they have no idea why they sell. Jun Hirakawa said in the patent for the 77, designed for the way people take pictures, not for the test charts. Unfortunately there are a lot of designers out there today who don't even know what the design parameters he was using are. And you can bet, he's not going to tell.
Well said, Norm. Thanks!
02-27-2016, 07:30 AM   #674
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QuoteOriginally posted by KDAFA Quote
+1, and not forgetting the FA43.

Truly, there is so, so much more to these three legends than merely "unusual focal lengths".

Moreover, test charts just can't tell the story here. Not easy to measure "soul".
And test charts say the FA31 and FA77 are great while the FA43 is great... stopped down. Even by test chart reviews, the FAltd are great. You get best of both worlds.
02-27-2016, 07:43 AM   #675
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