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05-01-2016, 08:46 AM   #1336
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benjikan,

Are you reconsidering Pentax? K-1 specifically?

05-01-2016, 09:38 AM   #1337
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Just curious, what genre of photography are you into?
I do mostly portraits, articles and concerts in the rock and metal genre And then mainly for the magazine Metal Hammer.
05-02-2016, 03:27 AM - 1 Like   #1338
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Seems like a winner in terms of low light performance ! (Test - Pentax K-1 : gestion du bruit électronique - Focus Numérique)
The K-1 is said to have a better image quality than the D810 at 6400 ISO, awesome
05-02-2016, 04:39 AM   #1339
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QuoteOriginally posted by gorme Quote
Seems like a winner in terms of low light performance ! (Test - Pentax K-1 : gestion du bruit électronique - Focus Numérique)
No reliable source.
They compare JPG, accept different exposure times for the same ISO level, and state that D810 and D800 share the same image sensor which they do not. Having said this, it may well be the K-1 beats D810. The D800E does too in terms of noise (by a tiny margin).


Last edited by falconeye; 05-02-2016 at 04:44 AM.
05-02-2016, 05:32 AM   #1340
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Great !
In the article they cite that apparently there is already an update to the firmware scheduled that would help ISO performance beyond 25400, good news !
05-02-2016, 05:54 AM   #1341
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
No reliable source.
They compare JPG, accept different exposure times for the same ISO level, and state that D810 and D800 share the same image sensor which they do not. Having said this, it may well be the K-1 beats D810. The D800E does too in terms of noise (by a tiny margin).
You're right about the exporure time and sensor of D810. About the jpeg, I usually download their Raw files instead of just looking at the jpeg. I would say that 25600ISO seems still fine in my eyes for a web use
05-02-2016, 06:00 AM   #1342
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QuoteOriginally posted by gorme Quote
You're right about the exporure time and sensor of D810. About the jpeg, I usually download their Raw files instead of just looking at the jpeg. I would say that 25600ISO seems still fine in my eyes for a web use
It is even for some other uses with a little post. About as good as iso 6400 on my K-5 I would say.
05-02-2016, 07:57 AM   #1343
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
It is even for some other uses with a little post. About as good as iso 6400 on my K-5 I would say.
That's why we really need the manufacturers to get their act together and give us an APSC body with as good electronics and software for noise management. There 1.1EV between APSC and FF, not 2. But between K5 or K3 on one side and K1, D810, A7R-II or D5 on the other side there 1.5-2EV difference.

That mean we should at least get 0.5EV on the next APSC body, maybe 1EV. Imagine the comfort for all the birders and wildlife shooter... A 55-300 will become as usable as a 60-250 f/4 or 100-300 f/4, at least when light is the limiting factor... So quite often. Imagine also indoor shots, we would get the performance on the next APSC as you get today on a 5D and not far from basic A7... f/2.8 would become quite comfortable in low light instead of being the minimum acceptable.

05-02-2016, 09:53 AM - 1 Like   #1344
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
That's why we really need the manufacturers to get their act together and give us an APSC body with as good electronics and software for noise management. There 1.1EV between APSC and FF, not 2. But between K5 or K3 on one side and K1, D810, A7R-II or D5 on the other side there 1.5-2EV difference.
The difference is 1.22EV ±0.5EV and that's a constant.

As much as people now rave about the K-1 and full frame image quality, as much they rave about D500 and how APSC "now" almost matches full frame.

It is more about wishful thinking than anything else. And the newest firmware for JPG processing.

Wrt raw quality, the best DxO low light score (ISO) for APSC currently is 1438 (D5500, 1235 for Pentax K-5II). According to Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting , the D500 scores 30% better which would be closer to 1900 (personally, I expect it to score around 1600) and in line with the best full frame scores, scaled to APSC.

Last edited by falconeye; 05-02-2016 at 10:01 AM.
05-02-2016, 09:56 AM   #1345
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
No reliable source.
They compare JPG, accept different exposure times for the same ISO level, and state that D810 and D800 share the same image sensor which they do not. Having said this, it may well be the K-1 beats D810. The D800E does too in terms of noise (by a tiny margin).
I still haven't see any evidence that the D810 / D800 sensors are not the same or at most different millésimes of the same thing (the main difference is in the filters mounted on it but the sensor itself has very similar specs) and I suppose the K1 sensor to be the third millésime.
05-02-2016, 10:00 AM   #1346
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QuoteOriginally posted by Glorfindelrb Quote
I still haven't see any evidence that the D810 / D800 sensors are not the same or at most different millésimes of the same thing (the main difference is in the filters mounted on it but the sensor itself has very similar specs) and I suppose the K1 sensor to be the third millésime.
I had to look up "millésimes" - it means "vintages", yes?
05-02-2016, 10:39 AM   #1347
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If Ricoh had released a K-100 flagship APSC on the very same day as the K-1 FF, like N*kon did with the D5 and D500, I think it might be a more valid discussion.

But as it stands, I'm guessing there are a lot of people like me, who have been sitting on an older K-5 classic, were sorely tempted by the K5IIs, but skipped it and the K3, K3II, and are ready for an upgrade finally... I've been on the upgrade wagon since the original *ist... DS, K10...K20...K7...K5... So I needed some time off from the insanity. Especially since some of those updates were pretty disappointing, I really didn't want to give up a reasonably good thing, and stayed with the K5.

DxO scores are nice, but really only tell part of the story, otherwise C*non would have gone out business by now. Some photographers style fits in line with slightly less dynamic range. Lot's of pro's made plenty of money over the years shooting with sensors that didn't max out the DR charts. So, while I really really really like the way Pentax engineers squeeze out the last drop of quality from a sensor, I don't hang my purchase choices exclusively on some websites test scores.

I have wanted FF from my first *ist because I came from shooting film, and not just 35mm, but 120mm and 4x5. Mostly a hobby now, but I still enjoy using capable equipment. Now that I am finally feeling ready to upgrade again, I just want the latest fastest AF and best low noise option in a fresh K mount body with a pro-level high durability shutter, and for my wants, the K-1 is really the only upgrade path. It doesn't hurt that a lot of us have some FF glass waiting in the wings to put to use either.

Also, by getting a K-1, you know that it is new, and that means it will see at least a few firmware updates before it is abandoned for the next great thing, so it will only get better over time, as long as no major defects crop up.

Eric


QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The difference is 1.22EV ±0.5EV and that's a constant.

As much as people now rave about the K-1 and full frame image quality, as much they rave about D500 and how APSC "now" almost matches full frame.

It is more about wishful thinking than anything else. And the newest firmware for JPG processing.

Wrt raw quality, the best DxO low light score (ISO) for APSC currently is 1438 (D5500, 1235 for Pentax K-5II). According to Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting , the D500 scores 30% better which would be closer to 1900 (personally, I expect it to score around 1600) and in line with the best full frame scores, scaled to APSC.
05-02-2016, 10:51 AM   #1348
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For some years I stated that making an aps-h sensored camera would be the way to stand out and make a good top tier camera.

A Belgium member of pentaxian made these images with da*50-135 to see how it can be used.
http://www.astapix.be/indextest.html

To me it is very clear that for Pentax making an aps-h camera would be the better choice. Lenses like da*50-135 and da*60-250 would perform great on it. Now making a move towards the K-1 is very expensive, you need new lenses and have to invest more. That limits the sales of K-1.
05-02-2016, 11:02 AM - 2 Likes   #1349
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Oh no, nonsense again.
05-02-2016, 11:19 AM   #1350
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It's pretty obvious, at least to me, that if Pentax started TODAY on your wish for an APS-H format DSLR, it would prolly be 3 or 4 years to your doorstep. Partly because there is no current APS-H sensor to buy from Sony (unless you want some ancient C*non senors?), which means tooling up for a custom run, testing, then selling some to Ricoh.


And that brings me to a couple questions as a reality check for you:


What do you think this flagship APS-H DSLR would cost by then?
What do you think the K-1 will be discounted down to by then?


See where I am going?


Chances are, if there is another APS-C in the pipeline, it's probably going to have K-1 features with an APS-C sensor, and prolly won't hear about it for another year would be my guess.
If you want to hold your breath a while longer, that is up to you.


Eric


QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
For some years I stated that making an aps-h sensored camera would be the way to stand out and make a good top tier camera.

A Belgium member of pentaxian made these images with da*50-135 to see how it can be used.
http://www.astapix.be/indextest.html

To me it is very clear that for Pentax making an aps-h camera would be the better choice. Lenses like da*50-135 and da*60-250 would perform great on it. Now making a move towards the K-1 is very expensive, you need new lenses and have to invest more. That limits the sales of K-1.
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