[Eric4]

Did I get that right? You do hope Pentax/Ricoh starts shipping cameras with unfinished, rough&ready or buggy firmware?

As a photographer, I'd rather get my K-1 soon and download a simple firmware update a few months down the road for video.

Perhaps Pentax will take a page out of Fuji's handbook - even updating older gen cameras to create a longer lasting product.

[kadajawi]

Did I get that right? You do hope Pentax/Ricoh starts shipping cameras with unfinished, rough&ready or buggy firmware?

Well, as long as it is finished enough and only needs a bit of polish? I mean, would you like to shoot with your camera now, even if it's not all smooth sailing, and get a fix for that in a few months, or wait a few months without a camera? Exactly. Plus new bugs may be discovered by users, and they'd be fixed earlier than if Pentax waited until the firmware is deemed ready... and they only get discovered at that point.

The SD to DVD resolution took a few years. So did the DVD res to HD res take. The same with HD to full HD and now from full HD to 4K. But fps have been standing still at 24 since a century ago. I think its time to increase the flickering slide shows Charlie Chaplins best days to 60 fps for now. 60 fps would be a huge lift from the flickering but even that is not completely flickering free. Later it should be increased to 100-120, but from there its not much visible difference. If you want to do just 1/2 speed slow motion maybe 60 fps recording and 30 fps viewing is enough, if the scene is quite slow to begun with.

Anyway, I don't think K-1's imaging sensor have fast enough readout for 1080 60p. Good video should have full readout of all the pixels for every frame, then dowscale it to the wanted resolution. Samsung NX1 and Sony A7RII have that so its possible with the current technology. Pentax just didn't opt for that. Full readout is also useful to get around SR challanges. It can digitally crop to a moving crop window, a digital kind of SR, before the crop is scaled down.

I thought the K-1 uses a similar sensor to the one in the D810? Or an updated version. That camera does 60p.

Peter Jackson tried to up the frame rate for professional video from 24 to 48. The experiment failed. People generally hated it. James Cameron is trying to do it again, this time with 60 fps for Avatar 2, and of course in 3D. Personally I'm not fond of high frame rates, I don't think it looks professional. For 3D it can be useful though, 3D tends to look very stuttery, unlike well shot 24p.

I don't mind if the camera does 60p, it would be a plus, another tool available, but far from necessary. What really helps is shake reduction, because it is useful for a certain way of shooting that is perfect for the K-1. The K-1 is relatively light and compact, plus very tough. It shoots great stills. So a wonderful travel companion, or for stuff that is shot with little gear. All you need is a good microphone (if even that... just use music). It would also be great for journalists who want/need to deliver high quality video AND stills. Thanks to SR there is no need to carry additional gear. Pop a mic on top of the camera, and they have everything they need to produce great content.

[clackers]

All software ships with bugs, because you're still finding them on the morning you release to matket.

Unless one is a 'showstopper", they can be patched later on - a phone app's cycle is fast and furious.

But firmware is different. Because a certain proportion of upgrades lead to bricking, there's pressure to be less ambitious and get this right.

[Erictator]

All software ships with bugs, because you're still finding them on the morning you release to matket.

Unless one is a 'showstopper", they can be patched later on - a phone app's cycle is fast and furious.

But firmware is different. Because a certain proportion of upgrades lead to bricking, there's pressure to be less ambitious and get this right.

I am just trying to figure out how a certain auction site has a seller listing the K-1 saying they have QTY (5) available in stock to ship, for like $500 OVER list price for the buy it now...


Can anyone explain that? I'm thinking a con-artist selling pre-orders very over-priced? Vapor ware?


Eric

[bxf]

Did I get that right? You do hope Pentax/Ricoh starts shipping cameras with unfinished, rough&ready or buggy firmware?

Valid point, but if a firmware update is viewed as adding a feature, then it would not be taken as having been unfinished or buggy in the first place.

[Nicolas06]

The SD to DVD resolution took a few years. So did the DVD res to HD res take. The same with HD to full HD and now from full HD to 4K. But fps have been standing still at 24 since a century ago. I think its time to increase the flickering slide shows Charlie Chaplins best days to 60 fps for now. 60 fps would be a huge lift from the flickering but even that is not completely flickering free. Later it should be increased to 100-120, but from there its not much visible difference. If you want to do just 1/2 speed slow motion maybe 60 fps recording and 30 fps viewing is enough, if the scene is quite slow to begun with.

Anyway, I don't think K-1's imaging sensor have fast enough readout for 1080 60p. Good video should have full readout of all the pixels for every frame, then dowscale it to the wanted resolution. Samsung NX1 and Sony A7RII have that so its possible with the current technology. Pentax just didn't opt for that. Full readout is also useful to get around SR challanges. It can digitally crop to a moving crop window, a digital kind of SR, before the crop is scaled down.

The A7R-II doesn't do full readout of all the pixels. It can do that only a super 35mm crop of the frame meaning a bit bigger than APSC. I don't think outside A7s and A7sII, Samsung NX1 there any APSC or FF still camera that has capacity to do a full readout whatever the output resolution and framerate you select.

[Nicolas06]

All software ships with bugs, because you're still finding them on the morning you release to matket.

Unless one is a 'showstopper", they can be patched later on - a phone app's cycle is fast and furious.

But firmware is different. Because a certain proportion of upgrades lead to bricking, there's pressure to be less ambitious and get this right.

Software or firmware it doesn't change the fact that people will get your product, might never update and the update are typically quite slow to come. Providing something that is too buggy is un-professional. So while i agree firmware is more complicated, it is never good.

If a few pro try the K-1 and it fail to them in the field because of some bug, whatever the reason they will complain and it will damage the reputation of the brand and of the model. They may stop using it going back to Canikon and once that done, you have lost them forever, they not try it again. If they are recognized, they can have great influence on many other people.

If many people prefer to wait a few month before buying that sure to get lower price, but also to ensure the product is really up to the specs, has no major issue (software and hardware) and the minor bug have been corrected.

[rawr]

Perhaps Pentax will take a page out of Fuji's handbook

I know Fuji gets all the love for being good at enhancing their cameras via regular firmware updates, but Fuji are relative newcomers to that game. Ricoh itself has been doing the same thing, for far longer than Fuji. People only noticed Fuji's firmware updates when they rolled out the X series of cameras, but Ricoh have a tradition of doing great firmware updates too (adding new features and customizations), since the very beginning of the GR and GXR lines. Just look at the current GR - it's up to firmware v5.0 already, and it's full of all sorts of new menu options, new features etc.

So if Pentax wanted to emulate anyone in terms of regularly providing 'rich' firmware updates to their cameras, they don't need to look far for inspiration.

[rawr]

Why do people keep talking about "Pentax" like it is some independent entity.

I recognise that Ricoh/Pentax are all one, and am totally OK with that. My point was simply that it's not just Fuji who know how to do fancy and regular firmware upgrades. Ricoh has a tradition of that too. Pentax less so, but now since they are all under the one roof, and fully integrated, Pentax DSLR firmware might start to adopt Ricoh tradition a bit more.

[luftfluss]

There's no reason to delay a camera because of the firmware. Just provide a firmware update soon after launch.

Sure it is. Look at the K-01. Poor AF performance was near the top of the gripes list not only from users but also reviewers. Had the K-01 been launched with the 1.03 firmware that dramatically improved AF performance, reviews would have been kinder.

"You only have one chance to make a first impression."

[Pepe Guitarra]

...There are simply are a few models of Ricoh Imaging cameras with the name Pentax on the front...

Don't say it so directly please! You may break somebody's feelings!


I thank you Ricoh for rescuing Pentax, otherwise, it would have gone broke (I am guessing here!). I hope Ricoh brings new blood of technology. Do not forget that Pentax started as: Asahi Kogaku, and they produced the Takumars for the Asahiflex cameras. Then, the Spotmatic came along with more Takumars, etc, etc. So, Ricoh Pentax sounds good to me.

[ZombieArmy]

I know Fuji gets all the love for being good at enhancing their cameras via regular firmware updates, but Fuji are relative newcomers to that game. Ricoh itself has been doing the same thing, for far longer than Fuji. People only noticed Fuji's firmware updates when they rolled out the X series of cameras, but Ricoh have a tradition of doing great firmware updates too (adding new features and customizations), since the very beginning of the GR and GXR lines. Just look at the current GR - it's up to firmware v5.0 already, and it's full of all sorts of new menu options, new features etc.

So if Pentax wanted to emulate anyone in terms of regularly providing 'rich' firmware updates to their cameras, they don't need to look far for inspiration.

Kind of like adding astrotracing to all sensor moving cameras via a firmware update.

Haha oh wait they never did that.

[Parallax]

Don't say it so directly please! You may break somebody's feelings!

That's okay. They can be put back together with gaffer's tape.

[Pepe Guitarra]

Nippon Kogaku was Nikon!

[thibs]

Kind of like adding astrotracing to all sensor moving cameras via a firmware update.

Haha oh wait they never did that.

Without GPS?