[D1N0]

I am wondering about Pentax K-1 pricing for Canadians. You can preorder the K-1 in the US for $1799 or $2499 Canadian. That is a 40% premium, reflecting the abysmal decline in our Cdn petro dollar. However, Fuji's new X-Pro2 can be preordered in the US for $1699 vs $1899 Cdn, a roughly 13% premium. Just doesn't make sense to me but thanks, Fuji, for doing us Canadians a real favour.

I am not from Canada but I've seen this store on the interwebs: Pentax K-1 Body

[mamethot]

Actually, price from B&H and canadian retail is very close...

Pentax K-1 - Canada and Cross-Border Price Comparison - photoprice.ca

[thibs]

Tokina has been manufacturing lenses for Pentax for some time. .

Nope. They never did.

[BigMackCam]

I don't think it counts as collaboration when one company is a subsidiary of the other, as Jaguar was to ford for 20 years (sold off in 2009).

OK, not the best example. Consider instead Nissan and Renault - both of whom remain corporately independent, albeit with some cross-holding of shares, and are instead "strategic partners". I drive a popular and commercially-successful car produced by Renault (under the Dacia brand) that utilises a Nissan-designed-and-built engine. But maybe, since they hold significant shares in each other, that's not a good example either? How about Rolls Royce's aerospace divisions, producing jet engines for several major aircraft manufacturers? There are examples like this everywhere, in pretty much every industry.

[Tom S.]

Actually, price from B&H and canadian retail is very close...

Pentax K-1 - Canada and Cross-Border Price Comparison - photoprice.ca

While the price may be similar, I doubt the average Canadian's wages have kept parity with the US dollar, so the bottom line is it still costs more.

[Rico]

Talking of lenses has anyone checked the prices of Pentax lenses lately?

The FA 31 was just on B&H last night for around $750. It went back up over a thousand today. There still are a lot of great deals though. The FA 43 and 77 are both discounted. The DFA 100 WR is only $370. Those DA 50 and 35 are selling for $90 and $100.

I think these prices have been like this for a while.

[patarok]

Every DSLR maker does this.. Nikon also.... Sony also... Canon also does outsourcing... (top secret) but it is said, that the L lenses are still produced in a dedicated CANON plant in japan...(but I highly doubt that they dont buy some components from other companies )
-->useless discussion!
This discussion reminds me at the dude who wanted to build his own toaster ... WITH EVERYTHING MADE BY HIMSELF MADE OUT OF RAW MATERIALS!!!!

have a look at the results ....

The Toaster Project
https://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_thwaites_how_i_built_a_toaster_from_scratch?language=en

so i hope you have seen what comes out here...

so plz stop that discussion ... NOW!
THX

BTW: Once there was light at the end of the tunnel, but now we know:

PENTAX IS DOOMED!

[ogl]

Talking of lenses has anyone checked the prices of Pentax lenses lately?

The FA 31 was just on B&H last night for around $750. It went back up over a thousand today. There still are a lot of great deals though. The FA 43 and 77 are both discounted. The DFA 100 WR is only $370. Those DA 50 and 35 are selling for $90 and $100.

I think these prices have been like this for a while.

BHPhoto is not the centre of universe.

K??????? / ??? / ?? | RICOH IMAGING
http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/support/catalog/pdf/lenses_accessories.pdf
All FA limited are in newest lens catalogue and at the site of Ricoh.

And easy to buy worldwide.

[BigMackCam]

Nope. They never did.

In which case you may want to propose corrections to the Wikipedia article... If it's genuinely wrong, I stand corrected!

If you search Google for "Wikipedia Pentax Tokina" and bring up the wiki entry, it reads as follows:

Tokina has[when?] become a partner of Pentax, a division of Ricoh, and has agreed to jointly develop some lenses. These will[when?] be available under the Pentax brand in Pentax K mount and under the Tokina brand for all other lens mounts. However, the research center, design and engineering teams of these two companies are[when?] completely independent.
The co-developed lenses share main optical designs but have different barrel structures and coatings.[citation needed] They also have some other different features. For example, the Tokina AT-X Pro 12-24mm II comes with built-in silent focusing motor, while the Pentax version has screwdrive autofocus. Another example is that Tokina AT-X Pro 16-50mm and 50-135mm have only screw-drive autofocus and no weather-sealing, but Pentax versions have both features.

This is my only reference, so you may well be correct...

[Nicolas06]

But these are cameras! Why is the pre-order price jacked up ? We're doing them a favor by pre-ordering the camera, and they'll have an EXACT idea of how much stock they'll need to order. If they don't put it out there in the form of a pre-order, they'll have no idea as to how much stock they should get in. If they get in too much, they'll have stock sitting. If they haven't got enough stock, they'll lose sales to their competitors.

This is marketing 101 and a form of market segmentation.

The idea is that you have the choice to make a single product, at a given price and you'll gain some amount of money.

But if we analyse things:
- some people that want the product cannot afford it and don't buy. It is too expensive.
- some people are willing to pay more for the product but you'll not get more money from them if you don't ask.

Reality is that if you are selling 1 variety of potatoes, you can split into 2 packs, call one premium choice and ask 3 time for it. Some people will still buy it even you it is exactly the same product.

So what you do is you propose the product at different price. If you keep exactly the same product but ask for 3 price, cheap, normal price and expensive price you'll sell much more and make more money.

The cheap version is going to get sales from people that could not have afforded the initial price. As long as the marginal cost to get 1 more is cheap enough, it is better to get some sales from them anyway.

The expensive version allow you to ask more from people that are willing to pay more, so obviously that a benefit.

This work very well for potatoes. But clothes is also typical. You just need to change the brand name and you can ask 100$ instead of 50$ or 20$. This work for camera too like the Leica rebadges.

In electronics, you play on the exclusivity of being the first to have the product, the benefit of showing to friends. They don't have it yet, you have. You are going to shine at the coffee break. So manufacturers ask more when a product has just been available, and very shortly drop the price. If timed well, you get all the money early adopter were willing to pay for but also the money from "normal" people but also from the few that will buy it on sale at an incredible discount. You have to time it right: giving enough premium time for early adopter so they can show off long enough but not too long, so you get the money from the other segments.

Of course, if people get the impression they are deceived and pay too much for no reason or the cheap version is as good, your model doesn't work. So in all cases you need to ensure the wealthy or normal people don't all get the cheap version. You use a brand name, you remove/add a feature insisting on the huge difference it make or why not... change the sensor size.

All the idea can be applied. Theses potatoes are better for your health, this chicken is allal, the camera has less/more MP, the car has better looking wheels... The default frequency of the CPU is set higher/slower. You make your line of clothes advertized by some famous wealthy person and don't sell in the same shop... As long as the change in cost for you is minimal, you fully benefit of it.

[Rico]

BHPhoto is not the centre of universe.

K??????? / ??? / ?? | RICOH IMAGING
http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/support/catalog/pdf/lenses_accessories.pdf
All FA limited are in newest lens catalogue and at the site of Ricoh.

And easy to buy worldwide.

ogl sorry I didn't mean to imply that B&H was the center of the universe. But they are a good gauge for US prices.

The US dollar has been pretty strong the last year which has brought down the price of Pentax lenses in the US.

[Pål Jensen]

In which case you may want to propose corrections to the Wikipedia article... If it's genuinely wrong, I stand corrected!..

It says nothing abut those lenses being made by Tokina. The 16-50/2.8, at least, is made by Pentax.

[Nicolas06]

And face the same problem there. You are intimating Canon and Nikon are problem free.
Canikon must be very pleased with your logic. It is this sort of baseless not well thought out statement which gives these two manufacturers this "über" and largely unjustifiable reputation.

Cheers

Having a bad experience doesn't mean anything in terms of statistics for the next time, but you may not fully appreciate to have paid 1800$ for something that doesn't work as expected. You'll want to get rid of it and you'll complain.

This is human nature. This is clearly even more true if you choosed something that is not so well recognized. It will be easy to blame it on the exotic choice.

Now if the firmware is rushed and doesn't work well, this is not a discussion if your fault rate is 10% instead of 5% but that your only product that target a given market segment, the one product you bet your future on has 100% faillure rate.

This can be enougth to ruin the company. More tests greatly decrease the likelyness of such terrible event and doesn't cost much anyway as sales for camera are not good in winter.

Again I work as a software engineer, clients always want things sooner and insist you rush things. They are really willing you to take any risk.

When things go wrong, they don't hesitate to sue you and ask millions $ of indemnity for not matching the contract. Because what they asked you to do is to take the responsability of the risk.

The people here want to have they toy sooner and right now they discount the possibility of any faillure. But it is a bet they have no experience on, no way to evaluate and not the right to make instead of Pentax anyway. I think the guy that ask that are not ready to provide insurence to Pentax, giving them a few dozen millions dollars in case the K-1 doesn't sell.

[clackers]

I've lived through this. My company was acquired. My division was the jewel in the crown. The new owner systematically dismembered the internal processes, flattened the personnel structure, installed their own internal processes amd people, but kept the core internal science and external brand que's. From my perspective, though the name was continued, my original company no longer exists.

Well, that's grubby, but I hope your buyers are actually in the same line of business, and aren't just some equity group that'll slash half the workforce and sell in a couple of years.

As you know, Ricoh bought Pentax for its camera expertise, customers and assets, rather than Hoya, who just wanted the medical products.

[monochrome]

As you know, Ricoh bought Pentax for its camera expertise, customers and assets, rather than Hoya, who just wanted the medical products.

Our buyers acquired $1.3 Trillion in client assets. That was their motivation. By making the changes they increased ROE from 11.3% to. 23.2% in 5 years. And you can guess who was well served and who has suffered.

All I'm saying is, Ricoh surely changed operations. Whatever their motivation - and we want to ascribe to them benign intent - change is change. It isn't Pentax any more. It wouldn't be Pentax any more if Asahi had not been LBO'ed because to avoid it they would have had to change.

But what it is has so much potential and is so good now that none of that matters.