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03-04-2016, 05:11 AM   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
Again the design has more of a role in the size and weight for a given FOV and DOF than the difference between formats, just like the new nikkor 300 F4 its 70 g lighter and only 13mm longer than the DA 200 F2.8
Pentax has said the DA*200 f/2.8 is really an FF lens and provide support for it on the K1. A DA*200 made for APSC only would be smaller/lighter.

Compare the 50-135 f/2.8 an APSC design with the various 70-200 f/4... The Pentax manage to be shorter and lighter than the others, even the 70-200 f/4 from Sony that is supposed to have tiny light lenses from the official mirorless marketing propaganda.

03-04-2016, 05:19 AM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
I like that one! (400-600mm f/8-12)

And I would like even more a heavily modernized version with WR, AF, back CPL filter, HD coatings and a large hood.
Panasonic 100-300 f/4-5.6 is equivalent to 200-600 f/8-f11. For this reach it is light, small and innexpensive. It can even get avoid onion bokeh and so doesn't have to be limited to bird on branch or other stupid things like that.
03-04-2016, 07:40 AM   #258
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Pentax has said the DA*200 f/2.8 is really an FF lens and provide support for it on the K1. A DA*200 made for APSC only would be smaller/lighter.

Compare the 50-135 f/2.8 an APSC design with the various 70-200 f/4... The Pentax manage to be shorter and lighter than the others, even the 70-200 f/4 from Sony that is supposed to have tiny light lenses from the official mirorless marketing propaganda.
That's just because the 50-135mm is a 50-135mm, and not a 70-200mm My old A70-210mm f/4 was also quite large, a bit longer than the 50-135mm but not as heavy.

Regarding the DA*200mm it probably would not be much smaller as an APS-C-lens. The length and width is pretty fixed at that focal length.
03-04-2016, 08:45 AM   #259
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Compare the 50-135 f/2.8 an APSC design with the various 70-200 f/4... The Pentax manage to be shorter and lighter than the others, even the 70-200 f/4 from Sony that is supposed to have tiny light lenses from the official mirorless marketing propaganda.
After searching options around 70-200mm for K1, I really want Pentax can come out with star quality 70-200 f4, around 700-800g weight. Not everyone needs 70-200 f2.8, pricey and heavy.

03-04-2016, 09:32 AM   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by micromacro Quote
70-200 f4, around 700-800g weight
You better hope Pentax don't partner with Tokina to produce a 70-200 f4 - their recent 70-200 f4 weights 1kg [980g].
03-04-2016, 09:42 AM   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
You better hope Pentax don't partner with Tokina to produce a 70-200 f4 - their recent 70-200 f4 weights 1kg [980g].
I don't want Pentax partner with Canon , only to get some ideas.
03-04-2016, 10:09 AM   #262
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QuoteOriginally posted by micromacro Quote
I don't want Pentax partner with Canon , only to get some ideas.
I would not mind a cooperation between them on topics such as autofocus or lens/focus motors.
03-04-2016, 10:28 AM   #263
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QuoteOriginally posted by micromacro Quote
After searching options around 70-200mm for K1, I really want Pentax can come out with star quality 70-200 f4, around 700-800g weight. Not everyone needs 70-200 f2.8, pricey and heavy.
I'll be checking how good the DA* 60-250mm f/4 is on the K-1 at FF.

I've taken photos with it on a Pentax Z-1p film camera. It isn't "star quality" fully open, and vignettes in certain cases. But removing a baffle at the back is reported to remove the vignetting.(I don't know yet whether I'll try that!)

What I'm suggesting is that Ricoh might usefully be able to re-package it, for example with HD coating and removal of the baffle, without a lot of development cost. It is around 1 kilogram.

03-04-2016, 10:34 AM   #264
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QuoteOriginally posted by timautin Quote
O_o hundreds of Pentaxians?? You mean, personally? Is there some Pentaxland hidden in Italy?!
Yes, personally. We are members of a pentaxian forum and we do meet two times a year in different location of the country. Most of the time we keep in contact just trough the forum, but many of us have met at least one time by person.

Last edited by eurostar; 03-04-2016 at 10:50 AM.
03-04-2016, 03:48 PM   #265
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QuoteOriginally posted by DagT Quote
That's just because the 50-135mm is a 50-135mm, and not a 70-200mm My old A70-210mm f/4 was also quite large, a bit longer than the 50-135mm but not as heavy.

Regarding the DA*200mm it probably would not be much smaller as an APS-C-lens. The length and width is pretty fixed at that focal length.
APS-C vs FF is so close that it wont make a clear difference anyway. But I would expect a FF version of DA 50-135 f/2,8 (approximately D-FA 70-200 f/4) to be longer, have the same diameter and be slightly lighter. A longer barrel will weigh more, but the glass lenses would probably weigh less since the light donít have to be refracted as much as in the APS-C equivalent. The lens elements would be less curved and thus thinner. But the weight difference between neighbouring formats would be so small that its easily masked by other details.

The DA*200 f/2,8 has a FF image circle. An APS-C equivalent would be a 135mm f/2,0 with APS-C image circle. I donít know about any lenses like that, but if it existed I would expect it to be shorter, have the same diameter and weigh almost the same (slightly lighter barrel and heavier glasses).

We should try to find a matching pair with much bigger sensor size difference. A 1/4"-1/2" C-mount or CX format lens vs an old 6x7 lens or even large format lens. A lens pair where both uses its full image circle, have the same field of view and have the same aperture diameter.
03-04-2016, 04:45 PM   #266
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QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
APS-C vs FF is so close that it wont make a clear difference anyway. But I would expect a FF version of DA 50-135 f/2,8 (approximately D-FA 70-200 f/4) to be longer, have the same diameter and be slightly lighter. A longer barrel will weigh more, but the glass lenses would probably weigh less since the light don’t have to be refracted as much as in the APS-C equivalent. The lens elements would be less curved and thus thinner. But the weight difference between neighbouring formats would be so small that its easily masked by other details.

The DA*200 f/2,8 has a FF image circle. An APS-C equivalent would be a 135mm f/2,0 with APS-C image circle. I don’t know about any lenses like that, but if it existed I would expect it to be shorter, have the same diameter and weigh almost the same (slightly lighter barrel and heavier glasses).

We should try to find a matching pair with much bigger sensor size difference. A 1/4"-1/2" C-mount or CX format lens vs an old 6x7 lens or even large format lens. A lens pair where both uses its full image circle, have the same field of view and have the same aperture diameter.
Are you confusing "equivalent focal lengths" with real focal lengths now? A 135mm f/2.0 would be a completely different construction than a 200mm f/2.8. Actually, it would be quite similar to my old 135mm f/1.8 (which is large an heavy), except maybe a litt smaller lenses on the sensor end of the lens because of the reduced sensor size.
03-04-2016, 05:01 PM   #267
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
I'll be checking how good the DA* 60-250mm f/4 is on the K-1 at FF.

I've taken photos with it on a Pentax Z-1p film camera. It isn't "star quality" fully open, and vignettes in certain cases. But removing a baffle at the back is reported to remove the vignetting.(I don't know yet whether I'll try that!)

What I'm suggesting is that Ricoh might usefully be able to re-package it, for example with HD coating and removal of the baffle, without a lot of development cost. It is around 1 kilogram.
If so, it will be a true star lens in FF!
03-04-2016, 05:19 PM   #268
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
I'll be checking how good the DA* 60-250mm f/4 is on the K-1 at FF.

I've taken photos with it on a Pentax Z-1p film camera. It isn't "star quality" fully open, and vignettes in certain cases. But removing a baffle at the back is reported to remove the vignetting.(I don't know yet whether I'll try that!)

What I'm suggesting is that Ricoh might usefully be able to re-package it, for example with HD coating and removal of the baffle, without a lot of development cost. It is around 1 kilogram.
If one could comfirm that...
03-04-2016, 05:40 PM   #269
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I can. Send me a K-1 and I'll do it right away!
03-04-2016, 06:23 PM   #270
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QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
I like that one! (400-600mm f/8-12)

And I would like even more a heavily modernized version with WR, AF, back CPL filter, HD coatings and a large hood.
As i said before, a mirror lens are probable best as a APS lens, but that 400-600 seams to be sharp.
A updated APS fish eye zoom and a new/updated FF fish eye zoom must have CPL and grey filter.
In my opinion DA10-17 needs a CPL filter, but Pentax can repair that mistake in a new HD WR lens, also DA200 and a coming ? 135mm lens
should have a tripod mount or ability to it, think Q cameras...
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