My report from CP+ 2016

souless · 02-29-2016, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by ColiNiloK

I found something interesting in regards to AF and ISO of the K-1:

In this video below, this Taiwanese reviewer mounted the 15-30, 24-70 and 70-200 on the K-1 and tried it's AF performance in live view, it actually focuses reasonably fast, and it seem to have face detection too( you can also hear the shutter sound in this video too):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0flbOdpvTE

This Chinese reviewer shot the K-1 in from ISO 6400 to ISO 204800, SD card is not allowed to be put in so he showed those images from back of the camera screen. Those pictures seem very encouraging in turns of ISO performance, however not sure what the image format those are and not sure noise reduction is turned on or not:
CP+2016:

If any of you interested what the guy in the video actually says or what the article says, happy to help.

just a brief summary

he said that even the 24-70mm, the lightest of the three, felt much more balanced with the battery grip attached than without,

he was impressed that the live view black out time was shorter than the other bodies offered by other companies. fast LV AF speed.

70-200mm is way too heavy to his taste(he mentioned that multiple times)

Last edited by souless; 02-29-2016 at 11:16 PM.

ColiNiloK · 02-29-2016, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by souless

70-200mm is way too heavy to his taste(he mentioned that multiple times)

Hahaha that guy is funny with his repeats,I remember he mentioned with that weight you can sure train your body( to be stronger). I almost started laughing, I wonder what he will say if Sigma's 120-300mm f2.8 eventually comes to K-mount and goes on the K-1 with the grip

I used to have the Sigma 120-300mm f2.8 and 5D mark III, that's definitely more strength training than carrying Canon's 70-200mm f2.8 around. I tried it on a friend's 1D mark III shooting an event once and that feels even more like a portable gym to me.

crussellsprout · 02-29-2016, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by souless

as stated in the Adam Q&A with Ricoh representative 2016 CP+
only electronic SR in movie mode
since they haven't found a solution to eliminate the noise of SR during video shooting

It is quite silly that they are still using that excuse -- they include external mic inputs on their cameras, but don't know how to use them?

That is simply no reason not to let the user use real SR during video if they so choose...

Gimbal · 03-01-2016, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by thibs

Some settings still are (potentially?) affecting Raw like Dark frame substraction (if it is even still used in current dslrs).
It was mandatory in the K7, very annoyingly and applied even if shooting Raw only.

Right, if the mandatory dark frame is back with the K-1, than that is one of the few things that would stop me from buying it. However it would be very surprising if it was.

rawr · 03-01-2016, 12:36 AM

Mandatory DFS was dropped from the K-5 onwards, if I recall. It has not re-appeared ever since (in the K-30, K-5II, K-3/K3II, 645Z etc), so I think there is zero chance it would re-appear in the K-1.

Gimbal · 03-01-2016, 01:14 AM

I know, I don’t expect it to reappear but I will have to know for certain before I buy. Sometimes they do weird things, like removing SR for video. Where did that come from?
(I know, someone complained about SR noises in the video so they disabled it. Everyone else complains about they removing it, but now they don’t care.)

DFS was not mandatory in the K10d, so it comes and goes.

gazonk · 03-01-2016, 04:17 AM

Originally posted by souless

since they haven't found a solution to eliminate the noise of SR during video shooting

When using the internal microphone or in general? I really like this feature in the K-5, I can't believe they removed it

souless · 03-01-2016, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by crussellsprout

It is quite silly that they are still using that excuse -- they include external mic inputs on their cameras, but don't know how to use them?

That is simply no reason not to let the user use real SR during video if they so choose...

Well, I guess they refer to the people who doesn't use external directional Mic XD
However I do notice the SR sound in a quiet environment when shoot with my old K-7.
Maybe an un-dicrectional Mic might still be able to pick up the SR noise?(not sure)

Originally posted by gazonk

When using the internal microphone or in general? I really like this feature in the K-5, I can't believe they removed it

Sorry, I didn't do video, and the rep didn't specify in the video, either.

Hope this helps

Winder · 03-01-2016, 05:49 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

I know, I don’t expect it to reappear but I will have to know for certain before I buy. Sometimes they do weird things, like removing SR for video. Where did that come from?
(I know, someone complained about SR noises in the video so they disabled it. Everyone else complains about they removing it, but now they don’t care.)

The DFS was needed for the Samsung sensor that was used in the K-7.

Using IBIS for video does create, but the SR also creates heat. For still shots that is not an issue, but video demands that SR work constantly for extended periods.

Gimbal · 03-01-2016, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by Winder

The DFS was needed for the Samsung sensor that was used in the K-7.

Using IBIS for video does create, but the SR also creates heat. For still shots that is not an issue, but video demands that SR work constantly for extended periods.

The electromagnets used by the SR system are also used to lift the sensor when SR is off. But it’s possible that there will be some extra heat if the system has to be slightly more active. But I have never had a heat problem with my K5 which does use the mechanical SR in video.

D1N0 · 03-01-2016, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by Winder

The DFS was needed for the Samsung sensor that was used in the K-7.

Using IBIS for video does create, but the SR also creates heat. For still shots that is not an issue, but video demands that SR work constantly for extended periods.

The Guy in the interview said it was because of the noise. If it was heat, he would have said so. I still think it has legal reasons.

Simen1 · 03-01-2016, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by rawr

I will be really keen to see the DxO test results for the K-1. Particularly the S/N and DR charts and their curves. Comparisons with the D810 and A7R will be very interesting.

If you are lucky you will get the results before the successor gets replaced..

normhead · 03-01-2016, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by Simen1

If you are lucky you will get the results before the successor gets replaced..

And they won't include pixel shifted image in any case, so you will still see results that are much worse than the results people will produce in the field every day.

rawr · 03-01-2016, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by Simen1

If you are lucky you will get the results before the successor gets replaced..

I know. But despite their flaws, they have a big database of camera sensor tests, a standardised testing procedure, and they make it easy to compare a wide range of cameras. So they remain useful.

nomadkng · 03-01-2016, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by normhead

And they won't include pixel shifted image in any case, so you will still see results that are much worse than the results people will produce in the field every day.

I'm not as excited as everybody else seems to be about the real world/practical application of pixel shifting.

For starters, only PS6 and CC support pixel shifting processing in RAW images, so I would have to go out and spend a lot of money to upgrade.
Or I could add another step to my work flow and process RAW files in Pentax's image processor and then pull it into Adobe. Ok, maybe.
But, I've watched/read a couple tutorials on how to handle motion blur in PS with stacking, and man that seems like a laborious process, for how much reward?

Since I intend to use the K1 for landscape images, especially long shutter waterfalls and seascapes; what am I really gaining with pixel shifting? 50% of my image could be flowing water. And I seriously doubt pixel shifting has a use for wildlife shooting. So maybe??? 10% of my portfolio could benefit from this?

I know I most definitely will NOT ever use a jpeg output from a camera, thus allowing the camera to do the pixel shifting for me is not an option.

So many people are talking like pixel shifting is a game changing, new world order, paradigm shifting feature. I'm honestly not convinced.

02-29-2016, 11:23 PM	#92
ColiNiloK Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 102	Originally posted by souless 70-200mm is way too heavy to his taste(he mentioned that multiple times) Hahaha that guy is funny with his repeats,I remember he mentioned with that weight you can sure train your body( to be stronger). I almost started laughing, I wonder what he will say if Sigma's 120-300mm f2.8 eventually comes to K-mount and goes on the K-1 with the grip I used to have the Sigma 120-300mm f2.8 and 5D mark III, that's definitely more strength training than carrying Canon's 70-200mm f2.8 around. I tried it on a friend's 1D mark III shooting an event once and that feels even more like a portable gym to me. Last edited by ColiNiloK; 02-29-2016 at 11:33 PM.

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02-29-2016, 11:10 PM	#91
souless Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Taipei Posts: 110	Originally posted by ColiNiloK I found something interesting in regards to AF and ISO of the K-1: In this video below, this Taiwanese reviewer mounted the 15-30, 24-70 and 70-200 on the K-1 and tried it's AF performance in live view, it actually focuses reasonably fast, and it seem to have face detection too( you can also hear the shutter sound in this video too): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0flbOdpvTE This Chinese reviewer shot the K-1 in from ISO 6400 to ISO 204800, SD card is not allowed to be put in so he showed those images from back of the camera screen. Those pictures seem very encouraging in turns of ISO performance, however not sure what the image format those are and not sure noise reduction is turned on or not: CP+2016: If any of you interested what the guy in the video actually says or what the article says, happy to help. just a brief summary he said that even the 24-70mm, the lightest of the three, felt much more balanced with the battery grip attached than without, he was impressed that the live view black out time was shorter than the other bodies offered by other companies. fast LV AF speed. 70-200mm is way too heavy to his taste(he mentioned that multiple times) Last edited by souless; 02-29-2016 at 11:16 PM.

02-29-2016, 11:59 PM	#93
crussellsprout Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 60	Originally posted by souless as stated in the Adam Q&A with Ricoh representative 2016 CP+ only electronic SR in movie mode since they haven't found a solution to eliminate the noise of SR during video shooting It is quite silly that they are still using that excuse -- they include external mic inputs on their cameras, but don't know how to use them? That is simply no reason not to let the user use real SR during video if they so choose...

03-01-2016, 12:30 AM	#94
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by thibs Some settings still are (potentially?) affecting Raw like Dark frame substraction (if it is even still used in current dslrs). It was mandatory in the K7, very annoyingly and applied even if shooting Raw only. Right, if the mandatory dark frame is back with the K-1, than that is one of the few things that would stop me from buying it. However it would be very surprising if it was.

03-01-2016, 12:36 AM	#95
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Mandatory DFS was dropped from the K-5 onwards, if I recall. It has not re-appeared ever since (in the K-30, K-5II, K-3/K3II, 645Z etc), so I think there is zero chance it would re-appear in the K-1.

03-01-2016, 01:14 AM	#96
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	I know, I don’t expect it to reappear but I will have to know for certain before I buy. Sometimes they do weird things, like removing SR for video. Where did that come from? (I know, someone complained about SR noises in the video so they disabled it. Everyone else complains about they removing it, but now they don’t care.) DFS was not mandatory in the K10d, so it comes and goes.

03-01-2016, 04:17 AM	#97
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by souless since they haven't found a solution to eliminate the noise of SR during video shooting When using the internal microphone or in general? I really like this feature in the K-5, I can't believe they removed it

03-01-2016, 05:15 AM	#98
souless Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Taipei Posts: 110	Originally posted by crussellsprout It is quite silly that they are still using that excuse -- they include external mic inputs on their cameras, but don't know how to use them? That is simply no reason not to let the user use real SR during video if they so choose... Well, I guess they refer to the people who doesn't use external directional Mic XD However I do notice the SR sound in a quiet environment when shoot with my old K-7. Maybe an un-dicrectional Mic might still be able to pick up the SR noise?(not sure) Originally posted by gazonk When using the internal microphone or in general? I really like this feature in the K-5, I can't believe they removed it Sorry, I didn't do video, and the rep didn't specify in the video, either. Hope this helps

03-01-2016, 05:49 AM	#99
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Gimbal I know, I don’t expect it to reappear but I will have to know for certain before I buy. Sometimes they do weird things, like removing SR for video. Where did that come from? (I know, someone complained about SR noises in the video so they disabled it. Everyone else complains about they removing it, but now they don’t care.) The DFS was needed for the Samsung sensor that was used in the K-7. Using IBIS for video does create, but the SR also creates heat. For still shots that is not an issue, but video demands that SR work constantly for extended periods.

03-01-2016, 06:08 AM	#100
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by Winder The DFS was needed for the Samsung sensor that was used in the K-7. Using IBIS for video does create, but the SR also creates heat. For still shots that is not an issue, but video demands that SR work constantly for extended periods. The electromagnets used by the SR system are also used to lift the sensor when SR is off. But it’s possible that there will be some extra heat if the system has to be slightly more active. But I have never had a heat problem with my K5 which does use the mechanical SR in video.

03-01-2016, 06:26 AM	#101
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by Winder The DFS was needed for the Samsung sensor that was used in the K-7. Using IBIS for video does create, but the SR also creates heat. For still shots that is not an issue, but video demands that SR work constantly for extended periods. The Guy in the interview said it was because of the noise. If it was heat, he would have said so. I still think it has legal reasons.

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03-01-2016, 07:34 AM	#102
Simen1 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tromsø, Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 1,031	Originally posted by rawr I will be really keen to see the DxO test results for the K-1. Particularly the S/N and DR charts and their curves. Comparisons with the D810 and A7R will be very interesting. If you are lucky you will get the results before the successor gets replaced..

03-01-2016, 07:50 AM	#103
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,448	Originally posted by Simen1 If you are lucky you will get the results before the successor gets replaced.. And they won't include pixel shifted image in any case, so you will still see results that are much worse than the results people will produce in the field every day.

03-01-2016, 07:55 AM	#104
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Simen1 If you are lucky you will get the results before the successor gets replaced.. I know. But despite their flaws, they have a big database of camera sensor tests, a standardised testing procedure, and they make it easy to compare a wide range of cameras. So they remain useful.

03-01-2016, 08:46 AM	#105
nomadkng Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,448	Originally posted by normhead And they won't include pixel shifted image in any case, so you will still see results that are much worse than the results people will produce in the field every day. I'm not as excited as everybody else seems to be about the real world/practical application of pixel shifting. For starters, only PS6 and CC support pixel shifting processing in RAW images, so I would have to go out and spend a lot of money to upgrade. Or I could add another step to my work flow and process RAW files in Pentax's image processor and then pull it into Adobe. Ok, maybe. But, I've watched/read a couple tutorials on how to handle motion blur in PS with stacking, and man that seems like a laborious process, for how much reward? Since I intend to use the K1 for landscape images, especially long shutter waterfalls and seascapes; what am I really gaining with pixel shifting? 50% of my image could be flowing water. And I seriously doubt pixel shifting has a use for wildlife shooting. So maybe??? 10% of my portfolio could benefit from this? I know I most definitely will NOT ever use a jpeg output from a camera, thus allowing the camera to do the pixel shifting for me is not an option. So many people are talking like pixel shifting is a game changing, new world order, paradigm shifting feature. I'm honestly not convinced.