DP Review: CP+ 2016: shooting the Pentax K-1 in Yokohama

Kunzite · 03-05-2016, 02:44 AM

Being targeted primarily at Pentaxians, and being made only for Pentaxians are two different things. Ricoh stated the former, but of course they're happy to get new users or returnees.
And it's actually true for about every new camera, otherwise we'd see en-masse migration between systems each time

pathdoc · 03-05-2016, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

en-masse migration between systems each time

Isn't that something of a fad on YouTube?

Not always for photography, admittedly, but searching "Why I'm switching to..." isn't exactly devoid of results.

I'm sure in many cases it's in response to a genuine need that their current widget doesn't fulfil, but I can't help thinking that some people switch systems (of whatever kind, not just cameras) because someone they follow on YouTube does it. Or sometimes just because.

**Rondec** · 03-05-2016, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Being targeted primarily at Pentaxians, and being made only for Pentaxians are two different things. Ricoh stated the former, but of course they're happy to get new users or returnees.
And it's actually true for about every new camera, otherwise we'd see en-masse migration between systems each time

There are always dissatisfied people who will switch in to a new system. They probably were with Nikon for awhile, but got frustrated at the D600 oil stains and then they went to Sony, but are unhappy because of battery life issues or ergonomics and now they are ready to try something else.

The problem with those sorts of folks is that they aren't likely to be satisfied long term with Pentax either. We have all seen them blow through the forum. Their first post is about how awful 'x' brand was and how glad they are to be with Pentax now. Within a few weeks, they frustrated with the flash sync speed and auto focus and metering on Pentax cameras and in another month, their gear is up for sale on the Marketplace and they are headed for Canon.

**ffking** · 03-05-2016, 04:49 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

The problem with those sorts of folks is that they aren't likely to be satisfied long term with Pentax either. We have all seen them blow through the forum. Their first post is about how awful 'x' brand was and how glad they are to be with Pentax now. Within a few weeks, they frustrated with the flash sync speed and auto focus and metering on Pentax cameras and in another month, their gear is up for sale on the Marketplace and they are headed for Canon.

Every time somebody raises points of this sort I nod sagely and say to myself "those folks will never be happy until they realise that it's vision that matters, not gear."

And then I go back to craving a K-1

pathdoc · 03-05-2016, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

There are always dissatisfied people who will switch in to a new system. They probably were with Nikon for awhile, but got frustrated at the D600 oil stains and then they went to Sony, but are unhappy because of battery life issues or ergonomics and now they are ready to try something else.

The problem with those sorts of folks is that they aren't likely to be satisfied long term with Pentax either. We have all seen them blow through the forum. Their first post is about how awful 'x' brand was and how glad they are to be with Pentax now. Within a few weeks, they frustrated with the flash sync speed and auto focus and metering on Pentax cameras and in another month, their gear is up for sale on the Marketplace and they are headed for Canon.

These are the true gear acquisition addicts. At least those of us who stay within Pentax and trawl the marketplace and ebay endlessly looking for bargains are building a complete system with widespread inter-compatibility; the people who forever flit between different and completely incompatible systems have a different problem.

derekkite · 03-05-2016, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by ffking

Every time somebody raises points of this sort I nod sagely and say to myself "those folks will never be happy until they realise that it's vision that matters, not gear."

And then I go back to craving a K-1

Yes! I'm into the experience of allowing the scene to tell me it's magic, to take time to savor the experience. To intimately know my equipment, value its capabilities and limitations until it becomes an extension of my eyes, hands and artistic vision.

Here is my credit card.

KDAFA · 03-05-2016, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by Jonathan Mac

Something about the DPR coverage in general (though not in this article) of the K-1 that I don't like is the repeated statement that it is really only for existing Pentax users and won't tempt people away from other systems. I know Ricoh themselves have stated as much but it's obviously untrue - a company which doesn't want to expand it's user base? Come on. It's something which has punctuated Pentax reviews on DPR for many years, long before the K-1 came along, and has always seemed at odds with the generally good impressions of the gear. Many Pentax reviews or articles state how nice a product is but then comes the unjustified disclaimer "but of course it won't make people switch systems". This re-inforces the impression that DPR is in the pocket of the big two, an impression that I think has diminished over the last couple of years due to their interest in mirrorless formats and their recognition that they are the future, but in the case of Pentax this attitude persists.

Well put.

But with the K-1, I begin to discern a slight change in that attitude.

Well, DPR's full review is yet to come out.

We shall see whether they persist in recommending Pentax gear only for existing Pentax users.

That's the true "acid test".

Here's hoping that the K-1 ushers in a new attitude towards Pentax over at DPR.

Last edited by KDAFA; 03-05-2016 at 06:58 AM.

Kunzite · 03-05-2016, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

There are always dissatisfied people who will switch in to a new system. They probably were with Nikon for awhile, but got frustrated at the D600 oil stains and then they went to Sony, but are unhappy because of battery life issues or ergonomics and now they are ready to try something else.

The problem with those sorts of folks is that they aren't likely to be satisfied long term with Pentax either. We have all seen them blow through the forum. Their first post is about how awful 'x' brand was and how glad they are to be with Pentax now. Within a few weeks, they frustrated with the flash sync speed and auto focus and metering on Pentax cameras and in another month, their gear is up for sale on the Marketplace and they are headed for Canon.

No, it's just one but he keeps changing systems

Good point, these people who just can't make up their minds are perhaps the worst kind of customers to get. I'm including here those who thinks about price and nothing else, though those most likely won't even buy something (just complain that prices are oh so expensive).
Market share-grabbing strategies would be IMO targeted at such people, but with a volatile result.

However, in my previous post I was talking about reasonable people who might get into/jump to Pentax and stay (for a while), because they found an advantage in doing so. And about the returnees, people who know Pentax but had to leave (typically because there was no FF available).
With us and them, Ricoh can have a stable user base.

**monochrome** · 03-05-2016, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by rawr

With the K-3, you can assign optical DOF preview to the RAW/Fx button ... No doubt the K-1 will inherit this capability. Even with the K-x you could also assign optical DOF to the Green button.

On cameras like the K-3 or K-5, however, I've found that turning the main On/Off/Preview switch to the existing optical preview position is so easy that using a separate button for the function does not provide any usability advantage.

Why doesn't everyone just do this? In my experience this has worked for me since K10D.

Dan Rentea · 03-09-2016, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

No, it's just one but he keeps changing systems

He is a professional photographer after all and he is entitled to change system more often than the rest of us.

You Tube

- Say cheeze! Oh no, a professional photographer can't say such a thing. It sound like amateurish.
- Say Yes! Now it's much better.

Joking aside, K-1 did started some interesting discussions in Canon/Nikon boat. "A very good price for a lot of features", this was the most common phrase I heard lately about K-1. And the unexpected (for some) selections of new lenses (15-30mm, 24-70mm, 70-200mm) was another topic debated with some enthusiasm. I mean, Sony started in the wrong way, they produced a lot of full frame mirrorless camera, but until recently they forgot to come up with the trinity of lenses that photographers awaited. Pentax has not made the same mistake.

So...I think we will see a lot more interest in Canon/Nikon's boat for the Pentax full frame if the K-1 reviews will be as good as the initial impressions that we read about on the internet.

Kunzite · 03-09-2016, 08:02 AM

Just for the record, I wasn't talking about anyone in particular. This time

Indeed, the K-1 got a lot of attention. Perhaps I should reserve mine, or else I risk having to wait the second (third, fourth...) batch of shipments...

**ffking** · 03-10-2016, 01:51 AM

Originally posted by Dan Rentea

Joking aside, K-1 did started some interesting discussions in Canon/Nikon boat. "A very good price for a lot of features", this was the most common phrase I heard lately about K-1. And the unexpected (for some) selections of new lenses (15-30mm, 24-70mm, 70-200mm) was another topic debated with some enthusiasm. I mean, Sony started in the wrong way, they produced a lot of full frame mirrorless camera, but until recently they forgot to come up with the trinity of lenses that photographers awaited. Pentax has not made the same mistake.

So...I think we will see a lot more interest in Canon/Nikon's boat for the Pentax full frame if the K-1 reviews will be as good as the initial impressions that we read about on the internet.

This is getting serious - reviewers have been trotting out the same reasons for objecting to Pentax for so long (OK not totally unjustified, but a bit knee-jerk) - surely they're not going to have to find new ones?

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03-05-2016, 02:44 AM	#91
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Being targeted primarily at Pentaxians, and being made only for Pentaxians are two different things. Ricoh stated the former, but of course they're happy to get new users or returnees. And it's actually true for about every new camera, otherwise we'd see en-masse migration between systems each time

03-05-2016, 04:21 AM	#92
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by Kunzite en-masse migration between systems each time Isn't that something of a fad on YouTube? Not always for photography, admittedly, but searching "Why I'm switching to..." isn't exactly devoid of results. I'm sure in many cases it's in response to a genuine need that their current widget doesn't fulfil, but I can't help thinking that some people switch systems (of whatever kind, not just cameras) because someone they follow on YouTube does it. Or sometimes just because.

03-05-2016, 04:43 AM	#93
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,662	Originally posted by Kunzite Being targeted primarily at Pentaxians, and being made only for Pentaxians are two different things. Ricoh stated the former, but of course they're happy to get new users or returnees. And it's actually true for about every new camera, otherwise we'd see en-masse migration between systems each time There are always dissatisfied people who will switch in to a new system. They probably were with Nikon for awhile, but got frustrated at the D600 oil stains and then they went to Sony, but are unhappy because of battery life issues or ergonomics and now they are ready to try something else. The problem with those sorts of folks is that they aren't likely to be satisfied long term with Pentax either. We have all seen them blow through the forum. Their first post is about how awful 'x' brand was and how glad they are to be with Pentax now. Within a few weeks, they frustrated with the flash sync speed and auto focus and metering on Pentax cameras and in another month, their gear is up for sale on the Marketplace and they are headed for Canon.

03-05-2016, 04:49 AM	#94
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,039	Originally posted by Rondec The problem with those sorts of folks is that they aren't likely to be satisfied long term with Pentax either. We have all seen them blow through the forum. Their first post is about how awful 'x' brand was and how glad they are to be with Pentax now. Within a few weeks, they frustrated with the flash sync speed and auto focus and metering on Pentax cameras and in another month, their gear is up for sale on the Marketplace and they are headed for Canon. Every time somebody raises points of this sort I nod sagely and say to myself "those folks will never be happy until they realise that it's vision that matters, not gear." And then I go back to craving a K-1

03-05-2016, 05:01 AM	#95
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by Rondec There are always dissatisfied people who will switch in to a new system. They probably were with Nikon for awhile, but got frustrated at the D600 oil stains and then they went to Sony, but are unhappy because of battery life issues or ergonomics and now they are ready to try something else. The problem with those sorts of folks is that they aren't likely to be satisfied long term with Pentax either. We have all seen them blow through the forum. Their first post is about how awful 'x' brand was and how glad they are to be with Pentax now. Within a few weeks, they frustrated with the flash sync speed and auto focus and metering on Pentax cameras and in another month, their gear is up for sale on the Marketplace and they are headed for Canon. These are the true gear acquisition addicts. At least those of us who stay within Pentax and trawl the marketplace and ebay endlessly looking for bargains are building a complete system with widespread inter-compatibility; the people who forever flit between different and completely incompatible systems have a different problem.

03-05-2016, 06:05 AM	#96
derekkite Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nelson B.C. Posts: 3,782	Originally posted by ffking Every time somebody raises points of this sort I nod sagely and say to myself "those folks will never be happy until they realise that it's vision that matters, not gear." And then I go back to craving a K-1 Yes! I'm into the experience of allowing the scene to tell me it's magic, to take time to savor the experience. To intimately know my equipment, value its capabilities and limitations until it becomes an extension of my eyes, hands and artistic vision. Here is my credit card.

03-05-2016, 06:43 AM	#97
KDAFA Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 528	Originally posted by Jonathan Mac Something about the DPR coverage in general (though not in this article) of the K-1 that I don't like is the repeated statement that it is really only for existing Pentax users and won't tempt people away from other systems. I know Ricoh themselves have stated as much but it's obviously untrue - a company which doesn't want to expand it's user base? Come on. It's something which has punctuated Pentax reviews on DPR for many years, long before the K-1 came along, and has always seemed at odds with the generally good impressions of the gear. Many Pentax reviews or articles state how nice a product is but then comes the unjustified disclaimer "but of course it won't make people switch systems". This re-inforces the impression that DPR is in the pocket of the big two, an impression that I think has diminished over the last couple of years due to their interest in mirrorless formats and their recognition that they are the future, but in the case of Pentax this attitude persists. Well put. But with the K-1, I begin to discern a slight change in that attitude. Well, DPR's full review is yet to come out. We shall see whether they persist in recommending Pentax gear only for existing Pentax users. That's the true "acid test". Here's hoping that the K-1 ushers in a new attitude towards Pentax over at DPR. Last edited by KDAFA; 03-05-2016 at 06:58 AM.

03-05-2016, 07:42 AM	#98
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Rondec There are always dissatisfied people who will switch in to a new system. They probably were with Nikon for awhile, but got frustrated at the D600 oil stains and then they went to Sony, but are unhappy because of battery life issues or ergonomics and now they are ready to try something else. The problem with those sorts of folks is that they aren't likely to be satisfied long term with Pentax either. We have all seen them blow through the forum. Their first post is about how awful 'x' brand was and how glad they are to be with Pentax now. Within a few weeks, they frustrated with the flash sync speed and auto focus and metering on Pentax cameras and in another month, their gear is up for sale on the Marketplace and they are headed for Canon. No, it's just one but he keeps changing systems Good point, these people who just can't make up their minds are perhaps the worst kind of customers to get. I'm including here those who thinks about price and nothing else, though those most likely won't even buy something (just complain that prices are oh so expensive). Market share-grabbing strategies would be IMO targeted at such people, but with a volatile result. However, in my previous post I was talking about reasonable people who might get into/jump to Pentax and stay (for a while), because they found an advantage in doing so. And about the returnees, people who know Pentax but had to leave (typically because there was no FF available). With us and them, Ricoh can have a stable user base.

03-05-2016, 08:41 AM	#99
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by rawr With the K-3, you can assign optical DOF preview to the RAW/Fx button ... No doubt the K-1 will inherit this capability. Even with the K-x you could also assign optical DOF to the Green button. On cameras like the K-3 or K-5, however, I've found that turning the main On/Off/Preview switch to the existing optical preview position is so easy that using a separate button for the function does not provide any usability advantage. Why doesn't everyone just do this? In my experience this has worked for me since K10D.

03-09-2016, 08:02 AM	#101
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Just for the record, I wasn't talking about anyone in particular. This time Indeed, the K-1 got a lot of attention. Perhaps I should reserve mine, or else I risk having to wait the second (third, fourth...) batch of shipments...

03-10-2016, 01:51 AM	#102
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,039	Originally posted by Dan Rentea Joking aside, K-1 did started some interesting discussions in Canon/Nikon boat. "A very good price for a lot of features", this was the most common phrase I heard lately about K-1. And the unexpected (for some) selections of new lenses (15-30mm, 24-70mm, 70-200mm) was another topic debated with some enthusiasm. I mean, Sony started in the wrong way, they produced a lot of full frame mirrorless camera, but until recently they forgot to come up with the trinity of lenses that photographers awaited. Pentax has not made the same mistake. So...I think we will see a lot more interest in Canon/Nikon's boat for the Pentax full frame if the K-1 reviews will be as good as the initial impressions that we read about on the internet. This is getting serious - reviewers have been trotting out the same reasons for objecting to Pentax for so long (OK not totally unjustified, but a bit knee-jerk) - surely they're not going to have to find new ones?