Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
04-05-2016, 02:01 AM   #181
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,326
QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
It would be a HUGE mistake to develop a mirrorless system which required a new lens mount/registration distance.

That leaves three options IMHO:
[...]
2) Learn from the lessons of the conceptually excellent K-01, and add an EVF and all the video specs the movie aficionados incessantly bleat about. Expect another (compact) brick. Broadest appeal.
[...]
And it would be a HUGE mistake not do to it (if seriously getting into the large sensor MILCs). The question is, which HUGE mistake should they made?
There's a problem with 2, IMO. On the short term, it's indeed a solution, as it doesn't need a full lens range. But, a camera system must last for decades and short term thinking might lead to difficult to solve issues, later on.
And having all their cameras with that large unused space behind the lens (OK, you can have lenses with protruding elements, but I guess there are restrictions, as those elements must be smaller in diameter) is definitely a disadvantage. Their cameras would always be larger; their wide lenses, more difficult to design.
The long term solution should be a new mount, with a large diameter and short registration distance. And a new lens line to accompany it. No pain, no gain.

But, would we see that, anytime soon? No idea... and I certainly don't plan on giving up on DSLRs anytime soon

04-05-2016, 02:52 AM   #182
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: mid nth coast,nsw
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,123
Considering the K-01 is just a touch smaller than the K-S1,why not use the innards of the k-01 in the body of the Ks1...with weather sealing.No new lens mount needed.A new sensor?or the existing one.4k video?,evf, HAPPY DAYS.
04-05-2016, 03:13 AM   #183
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,228
I don't really see the point of the mirrorless revolution. I guess if you really like EVFs, they are fine. At this point, I don't really need the functionality that they offer, but I don't do much manual focusing and I have shot long enough that I can figure out how to get my exposure right in camera without having a whole lot of helps in that respect. The whole new mount with an adapter feels like a bad idea to me, as in my experience, they are expensive and just a kludge to bridge till the time that the camera company can come up with dedicated lenses for the new mount.

Why Pentax would tie themselves to the X mount, which is apparently not full frame compatible and when Fuji's cameras aren't that much smaller than camera like the kx or K-S1, I don't know. I certainly think a full frame K-01 with PD AF on the sensor and an EVF would probably sell well and wouldn't be much bigger than some of the other mirrorless options on the market.
04-05-2016, 05:16 AM   #184
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,982
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Canon, Nikon and Sony are the only story here, I'd have thought. It is they who will dictate whatever mirrorless does or does not become.
The best way to go from "only story" to "member of the pack", or even "do you remember ___?" is to ignore the market. You may not be old enough to remember when people talked about "IBM and the BUNCH" {Burroughs, UNIVAC, NCR, CDC, Honeywell}; today IBM is just part of the pack, and many of those that were back in the pack {the "BUNCH"} have long since been absorbed by others more attentive to the market. Or, we could talk about GM and how they dominated the automobile market. Or even better, when the yellow giant in Rochester NY dominated the photography market, and was even the one who decided when a new disposable sensor format should be released.

---------- Post added 04-05-16 at 08:20 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Considering the K-01 is just a touch smaller than the K-S1,why not use the innards of the k-01 in the body of the Ks1...with weather sealing.No new lens mount needed.A new sensor?or the existing one.4k video?,evf, HAPPY DAYS.
Aren't the innards of a K-01 the same as the innards of a K-30? I'm not sure what your suggestion would gain.

04-05-2016, 08:20 AM   #185
Pentaxian
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,115
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The best way to go from "only story" to "member of the pack", or even "do you remember ___?" is to ignore the market. You may not be old enough to remember when people talked about "IBM and the BUNCH" {Burroughs, UNIVAC, NCR, CDC, Honeywell}; today IBM is just part of the pack, and many of those that were back in the pack {the "BUNCH"} have long since been absorbed by others more attentive to the market. Or, we could talk about GM and how they dominated the automobile market. Or even better, when the yellow giant in Rochester NY dominated the photography market, and was even the one who decided when a new disposable sensor format should be released.
Two differences. First, you are talking about once-in-a-century disruptive events: the arrival of the desktop PC, and then of digital imaging. DSLR versus mirrorless is nothing like that.

The second difference is that none of the minor photography brands has given any indication that they wish to change. They are variously financially constrained (Olympus, Fuji, Ricoh), under threat of closure (Panasonic) or have an infrastructure outside Japan that is too weak to do more than maintain the status quo (Ricoh). For as long as they wish to stay small and poor then the running all remains with the big three companies. I could see that changing if there were a huge mix up of mergers or a powerful and wealthy new entrant to the industry but not otherwise. Investment is key and without it nothing much will happen.
04-05-2016, 11:31 AM   #186
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,424
@mecrox is quite correct - investment is the key. Sony has made significant investment in sensor fab technology, but taking the long view that's more likely going into machine vision than cameras. Olympus has some of their hidden debt taken on by Sony, so that is 'investment' of a sort. Nikon is likely capital constrained for a while. Canon is a chimera. Ricoh can, but the shareholders would revolt.

The problem is margins in the camera industry. Other products have higher margins, so they get capital first. Cameras will survive only as long as they don't REQUIRE capital investment to survive.

Sony lowered manufacturing cost with Mirrorless but hasn't disrupted photography. Apple disrupted photography. That's the threat, even to high-end and MILC. We won't need interchangeable lenses at all in just two iterations of smartphone. The disadvantage will only b the form factor.
04-05-2016, 11:42 AM   #187
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,714
QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
1) What Q needs most is emphasis on small size and better functionality then phones. Compact zooms, DNG, viewfinder, useful buttons and wheels, ergonomy. Maybe even reduce the size by replacing the screen with a small EVF and have Wifi with sync function to view images on the phone screen.
I guess for this it needs to switch and run on Android. Connecting with those people who use Android.
04-05-2016, 12:12 PM   #188
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,524
QuoteOriginally posted by starjedi Quote
What Fuji did in the past several years indeed is very successful. Lot of APS-C specific lenses are delivered. Their APS-C lens line-up is close to finish and has exceeded Pentax APS-C line-up apparently.
What I don't get is how Pentax managed to be so slow. We see manufacturer smaller than Pentax, and who started a completely new product line and they came up when a full set of new design consistent with the current technology in about four or five years. Pentax lived a lot of legacy lenses, so I wonder what they did during the last decade. I not saying that Pentax products are bad, I'm just wondering where Pentax did spill their resources to be in the game before others and still managed to be overtaken by new entrants. Conservative approach? Lack of vision? I don't know.

04-05-2016, 12:22 PM   #189
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tromsų, Norway
Photos: Albums
Posts: 955
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I guess for this it needs to switch and run on Android. Connecting with those people who use Android.
I don't think it need to be another Android device, I think it can be phone centric without android, like Theta.
04-05-2016, 12:23 PM   #190
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,424
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
What I don't get is how Pentax managed to be so slow. We see manufacturer smaller than Pentax, and who started a completely new product line and they came up when a full set of new design consistent with the current technology in about four or five years. Pentax lived a lot of legacy lenses, so I wonder what they did during the last decade. I not saying that Pentax products are bad, I'm just wondering where Pentax did spill their resources to be in the game before others and still managed to be overtaken by new entrants. Conservative approach? Lack of vision? I don't know.
Hoya. They essentially liquidated the assets of the company and sold the empty husk to Ricoh. Last breakthrough mainstream product was K10D in 2006 (645D was essentially a K-7 with a large sensor in a film body).

Since clean-sheet product development takes 3-5 years we are just now seeing the first real Ricoh products. Unfortunately, time lost can never be recovered.
04-05-2016, 12:43 PM   #191
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,714
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
What I don't get is how Pentax managed to be so slow. We see manufacturer smaller than Pentax, and who started a completely new product line and they came up when a full set of new design consistent with the current technology in about four or five years. Pentax lived a lot of legacy lenses, so I wonder what they did during the last decade. I not saying that Pentax products are bad, I'm just wondering where Pentax did spill their resources to be in the game before others and still managed to be overtaken by new entrants. Conservative approach? Lack of vision? I don't know.
Spreading resources on many different product lines, ending up with being slow in developing for all of them.
04-05-2016, 12:52 PM   #192
Site Supporter
Zygonyx's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ile de France
Posts: 3,070
I guess, despite trivial "comparisons" that don't sound that much evident, contained R&D to waranty the most important : keeping the financial balance on the green side...
Slow doesn't mean wrong.
It should be the contrary, if products are good and longlasting quality class.
04-05-2016, 01:03 PM   #193
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,524
QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
It should be the contrary, if products are goodand longlasting quality.
Digital tech is moving fast, sales are achieved with new products in line with updated customer expectations. There is no point to buy a camera that can withstand more than 5 years because in 5 years from now, the current tech will be obsolete. 512Mbytes SD card used to be sufficient, in less than 10 years, I move from 512Mbytes to 64Gbytes, even if the 512Mbytes card is still working I don't use it. In marketing, timing is crucial to capture the value of technology life cycle. In a 3 years life cycle average, come one year later and you already lost half of your sales potential as all of your customer are already engaged in a relationship with your competitors.
04-05-2016, 01:10 PM   #194
Site Supporter
Zygonyx's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ile de France
Posts: 3,070
Things are changing... and different : camera business i not really like any other consumer business.
Sony's way of accelerating products cycles remains to be proven to be profitable, both in short-term business (for their interests), and in long-term environmental aspects (for the communities).
04-05-2016, 01:39 PM   #195
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,982
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
none of the minor photography brands has given any indication that they wish to change. They are variously financially constrained (Olympus, Fuji, Ricoh), under threat of closure (Panasonic) or have an infrastructure outside Japan that is too weak to do more than maintain the status quo (Ricoh). For as long as they wish to stay small and poor then the running all remains with the big three companies. I could see that changing if there were a huge mix up of mergers or a powerful and wealthy new entrant to the industry but not otherwise. Investment is key and without it nothing much will happen.
My very point is that the companies don't get to make that decision. Canikon can say "NO" to MILC all they want, but if customers want MILC, they will buy MILC from someone. The customers are ultimately the ones who decide whether to switch from buggies to automobiles, or from film to digital, or from DSLR to MILC. Ultimately, DSLR may remain as the dominant technology for the next fifty years, but if that happens it will be a result of consumer preference, not a result of what the suppliers want to manufacture.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
adapters, camera, canon, dslr, fuji, fujifilm, innards, k-01, k-mount, lens, lenses, market, milc, mirrorless, pack, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, plenty, reflex, ricoh, sensor, system, technology
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale - Sold: Tokina AT-X 80-200/2.8 SD Ka-mount Lens with Hood and Case fwcetus Sold Items 7 09-24-2015 03:54 PM
upgrading from k-x should i go mirrorless? rabblefrabble Pentax DSLR Discussion 20 11-29-2014 03:53 PM
Ricoh's marketing email go straight to Spam folder RonakG Photographic Industry and Professionals 16 04-19-2014 11:08 AM
No FF for at least two years. normhead Pentax DSLR Discussion 22 10-02-2012 08:27 AM
I want to stay with Pentax, but which way to go? Horst Laumer Pentax DSLR Discussion 16 10-22-2011 05:41 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:24 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top