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03-19-2016, 05:23 PM   #46
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None of these have much meaning for me, most all look plenty acceptable from either camera. I just want to see what my photos will look like with the K1, as that is all that will really have a significant affect on my needs. It is interesting to compare, but I somehow never get the feeling we are having legitimate comparisons?

The most interesting thing about this thread was the prospect that some "old light" might have been used? I've heard of lens differences, setting differences, composition differences...but this is the first time I have ever heard of using "old light"????

QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
The Nikon pictures where shot over two years ago, maybe the light used for the scene has faded forcing the Pentax to use longer exposures?
Regards!

03-19-2016, 05:31 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bromberger Quote
This is really weird. That is not what i wrote at all.

I do NOT find the K1 shots mushy, and i do NOT find they have less contrast either.
Oh. I do. Big time.
03-19-2016, 05:44 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
None of these have much meaning for me, most all look plenty acceptable from either camera. I just want to see what my photos will look like with the K1, as that is all that will really have a significant affect on my needs. It is interesting to compare, but I somehow never get the feeling we are having legitimate comparisons?

The most interesting thing about this thread was the prospect that some "old light" might have been used? I've heard of lens differences, setting differences, composition differences...but this is the first time I have ever heard of using "old light"????
Regards!
I suspect he meant that at the time those were taken, the "available light" was different, say winter vs spring at the same time of day, or different times of day or cloudy vs sunny outside etc.. . While F-stop and ISO are the same in the iso 50k images, the shutter speeds differ by a whole stop, suggesting that there was more ambient light when the Nikon was shot.

Or then again, it can be "mis-named"/"badly calibrated" iso numbers which isn't uncommon, especially at higher isos...

But either way if all the other issues were correctly handled (tripod used, same focal length, distance, f-stop, angle and we disregard the non-final-firmware question, which I agree can make all the difference in the end), I guess the final image quality at iso X could still be "fairly" represented in the image, even if the ambient light was different, as long as the final exposure was the same and the above statements were true (but I know they were, not, most were different) - shutter speed shouldn't affect the image quality if so.

But I guess we won't know until (if) some more rigorous tests are performed later on...
03-19-2016, 07:41 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
the first time I have ever heard of using "old light"????
Yup, you can only use those photons so many times before they get worn out.

People can argue about changing light conditions or moving focus, but the real colours of the candy bar wrappers and the Fanta labels don't change, even though the Nikon, Pentax and Sony cameras give them three different colours. I've been tested for colour blindness and there are a couple of blue-green tones that look grey to me, but Pentax's better colours are pretty hard to miss. Maybe we should go back to black and white photography so Nikon and Sony can compete. If I'm buying your photographs I care more about the colours than I do about sharpness or random noise at the pixel level.

03-19-2016, 07:55 PM   #50
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I think it's important to note that these are pre-production samples. Added a note to the original post.

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03-19-2016, 08:32 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igor123 Quote
I suspect he meant that at the time those were taken, the "available light" was different, say winter vs spring at the same time of day, or different times of day or cloudy vs sunny outside etc..
I understood that...I just found it amusing that we could think of light as "old" and was having a little fun with the prospect of that.

QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Yup, you can only use those photons so many times before they get worn out.
Any idea how many times they might be used before they are used up?

Until we get the actual K1 we are ordering, and use it a while, what we think we know is only speculation....I am optimistic that those actually getting a K1 will be well satisfied...at least the vast majority. I base this on the past few top models that have generally exceeded expectations. My experience has been each new model has performed much better than the last. I have no reason to believe this one will be any different.

Regards!
03-19-2016, 09:05 PM - 1 Like   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Any idea how many times they might be used before they are used up?
You shouldn't ask a travelling salesman an advanced physics question like that, but I think it is like a mosquito that gets swatted once it draws blood. As soon as the moving packet of visible light energy (the light wave) gets stopped in its tracks, say by encountering a light sensor, it is finished. The only old light out there is waves that haven't stopped moving. To be serious for a few characters,tungsten lights change colour temperature over time and fluorescent lights change their light output over time but I would blame different light meters in different cameras before I would use different lighting conditions to explain why one company's cameras produce different looking photographs than another brand.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I am optimistic that those actually getting a K1 will be well satisfied...at least the vast majority
I'm sure that will be the case, even without seeing it, I can tell the K-1 is going to be a winner. Just like some people can tell it's not really as good as a D810, regardless of what the people who have actually used a K-1 are saying.
03-19-2016, 10:49 PM   #53
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Can't wait to see actual field use of this camera, well done Ricoh

03-19-2016, 10:49 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I think it's important to note that these are pre-production samples. Added a note to the original post.
So, basically under embargo / not to be taken for granted in final product.
03-19-2016, 11:42 PM - 1 Like   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Any idea how many times they might be used before they are used up?
Hi Rupert, you are an intelligent man with a brain as sharp as a well honed knife, so you can work this out for yourself.
Don't ask these meaningless questions here.

Since there are more eyes in India and China which use light and if the population keeps growing at the current rate, these countries will soon be in total darkness only minutes after sun rise. This is inescapable logic.

Cheers
03-20-2016, 01:00 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wild Mark Quote
K1 shot looks better but there is some horizontal banding that bothers me ????
Looks like fluorescent lamps, maybe therefore the colored banding at faster shutter speeds than 1/100 of a second. This type of lamps flickers at 100 Hz with 50 Hz mains frequency.

QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
To be fair, the K-1 used an exposure of f8 1/4000 sec, while the Nikon used f8 and 1/8000sec. Nikon being one stop faster.

Also at iso 100, the K-1 used 1/6 of second, while the Nikon used a shorter time 1/13, at iso 64 !!

There is something fishy going on here.
As the arrangement of the photographed theme changed there also may be a different illumination density too. Also the real T-stop of the used Sigma 35/1.4 Art may differ from the Nikon AF-S 50/1.4 G lens at the Nikon D810.

And of course different cameras have slightly different ISO sensitivities. For example K-3 vs. D810, click on the tab "Measurements":

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-D810-versus-Pentax-K-3___963_914

Last edited by Austro-Diesel; 03-20-2016 at 01:20 AM.
03-20-2016, 02:05 AM   #57
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Not sure if this has been posted before but the K-1 site now has some piece about the philosophy of the imaging processing in K-1 and may give an idea what they tried to achieve
Challengers | PENTAX K-1 Special site | RICOH IMAGING
03-20-2016, 03:17 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Austro-Diesel Quote
Looks like fluorescent lamps, maybe therefore the colored banding at faster shutter speeds than 1/100 of a second. This type of lamps flickers at 100 Hz with 50 Hz mains frequency.
But with the sync speed being 1/200 and the pictures having about 20 bands in the picture, that means flickering at 4kHz.

Also there are no flickering in then Nikon pictures.
03-20-2016, 03:28 AM   #59
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Hmmm, your're right. Maybe energy-saving lamps, these use a internally generated higher frequency. The reflexions show two round lamps.

What's different at Nikon? No idea.
03-20-2016, 03:46 AM   #60
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I'm unsure what to think re: banding. Hope it is a 'pre-production' issue that has been resolved. Not desirable that is for sure.

Anyway I await the user reviews so ongoing speculation on what this means right now is kind of premature.
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