Is that a new tele lens?

**RGlasel** · 03-25-2016, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Just take a big potato bag on your second shoulder

Add a K-1 to either lens and you have a 10kg package! An award winning Canon wildlife photographer that I am acquainted with does have a 600mm prime, but instead of standing on the side of the road cheek and jowl with other photographers, he uses blinds, remote triggers and/or hikes into remote locations far away from other humans. Many of his best photographs are taken at 300mm on a FF camera. But if you want bragging rights without spending hours in hip waders in a cold marsh, or wilderness camping for weeks, then the longer your lens is, the better it looks even if your pictures themselves aren't very impressive.

**monochrome** · 03-25-2016, 11:01 AM

Before Pentax bellies up to extreme telephoto they'll need to make serious improvements to autofocus, which they seem to understand. A $10,000 lens isn't much use if it finds focus half a second after the bird has moved.

That's the best argument for 'later' on the supertele's.

**Pål Jensen** · 03-25-2016, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by jpzk

I was thinking about a "prime" lens rather than a zoom.

I know but a fact of life is that lenses in this speed and focal lenght range is taken over by zooms.

Zygonyx · 03-25-2016, 12:42 PM

Agreed

derekkite · 03-25-2016, 12:55 PM - **1 Like**

Zooms are less expensive but not as sharp.

A 400f4 would be very interesting. 300 f2.8 on full frame is almost a portrait lens.

You know how to tell how many Pentax shooters there are in a crowd? Wait till it rains.

Long shooters are in my experience serious photographers that have multiple bodies and a collection of lenses. These are target consumers, you either have all their sales or none of them.

gorme · 03-25-2016, 12:56 PM

Well a 'light' 400mm f/4 would be a really good prime in the telephoto range. I use my 120-400mm (from Sigma) in the 350-400mm range most of the time and the f/5.6 is a bit too dark for some of my needs...

**monochrome** · 03-25-2016, 01:11 PM

There is a 'Million Dollar Mile' here in St. Louis - the Mississippi Flyway - where eagles and some sort of large swan winter over. Though I don't shoot long my wife and I venture up to the 'River Road Scenic Parkway' a couple times a winter. It's actually about twenty miles of wooded limestone bluffs above the Alton Pool behind Lock & Dam #26, with multiple shooting locations strung along the shore.

On any given bright, cold January day there are tens of hundreds of shooters with heavy tripods and gimbals and 600mm+ lenses lined up shoulder to shoulder at multiple locations. That scene is repeated for hundreds of miles above and below St. Louis during the winter months.

Sure, lenses last forever. But they aren't making any more legacy lenses and as the activity grows the users at the top buy new, pass down the old and AF lenses replace the classic MF lenses throughout the range. It's a bigger potential market over time than many would think.

The good news is the buyers will still be here next year and the year after, etc. Pentax won't be permanently barred if they don't have something big in 2017.

derekkite · 03-25-2016, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

There is a 'Million Dollar Mile' here in St. Louis - the Mississippi Flyway - where eagles and some sort of large swan winter over. Though I don't shoot long my wife and I venture up to the 'River Road Scenic Parkway' a couple times a winter. It's actually about twenty miles of wooded limestone bluffs above the Alton Pool behind Lock & Dam #26, with multiple shooting locations strung along the shore.

On any given bright, cold January day there are tens of hundreds of shooters with heavy tripods and gimbals and 600mm+ lenses lined up shoulder to shoulder at multiple locations. That scene is repeated for hundreds of miles above and below St. Louis during the winter months.

Sure, lenses last forever. But they aren't making any more legacy lenses and as the activity grows the users at the top buy new, pass down the old and AF lenses replace the classic MF lenses throughout the range. It's a bigger potential market over time than many would think.

The good news is the buyers will still be here next year and the year after, etc. Pentax won't be permanently barred if they don't have something big in 2017.

Except that people who want to buy long won't buy Pentax.

There is a huge difference between now and the last years of Hoya. My K lenses have a place. That wasn't the case not too long ago. The 150-450 is a natural for a 'field camera' and seems to have had some market success. The K1 is a serious body built to sell, and I suspect many apsc shooters are wondering how long we will have to wait for the K1 goodness.

Ricoh is smart and will bring out a new 300 f4 when the stocks of the DA* run down. Faster focus, HD. I suspect they will look carefully and bring out a long lens probably 400 or 500 mm with a nice set of tc's. Not all at once, and there probably will be the Tamron available for the long zooms.

The Nikon 300 pf is a striking lens and that technology would be interesting in something longer.

**RGlasel** · 03-25-2016, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

some sort of large swan winter over.

Trumpeter swans like these? (I didn't have the DA 55-300 then, so a manual focus SMC A 70-210 had to do). This is uncropped.

I stopped on the Trans-Canada Highway between Moose Jaw and Swift Current where there is a single viewing platform and a few information signs regarding Reed Lake being part of the Western Hemisphere Shorebird Reserve Network. Over a period of 45 minutes, I was alone (except for the highway traffic less than 100 yards away. I don't have any pictures of whooping cranes (I've only come across them once in my time in Saskatchewan), which are larger than trumpeter swans, but they winter in Texas, so I don't think they get as far east as St. Louis.

For the price of one of these long lenses, a serious birder could make a few trips to Canada. But the opportunity to demonstrate conspicuous consumption isn't as good. I'm not being critical, I just wanted to add a bit of perspective.

**monochrome** · 03-25-2016, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by derekkite

Except that people who want to buy long won't buy Pentax.

One hopes Pentax continually improves the AF, has more successes like the 645z and (apparent) K-1 and D-FA 70~200 and, when the time is right, they bring stellar long lenses that people who want to buy long will buy.

**jbinpg** · 03-25-2016, 05:57 PM

Feeling pedantic today. The weight of a Trumpeter Swan is 9.4-11.6 kg whereas that of a Whooping Crane is 6.2-7.3 kg. So the Whooping Crane is taller than a Trumpeter but the swan is decidedly heavier.

**monochrome** · 03-25-2016, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by RGlasel

Trumpeter swans like these?

Yes! Trumpeter Swans.

960 over wintered at Alton / St. Louis 2011-2012. They've been quite the rage since the flock has grown so large, similar to Bald Eagles when I was in High School in the 70's. Eagles are now common enough that few take notice of them aside from birders and photographers.

**oneill** · 03-25-2016, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by RGlasel

How is that combination to handle in the "field"? Do you find the DA 560 keeps you too far away from the bears that you want a shorter lens so you can get up close and personal?

Actually sometimes the DA560 is too long and I use my FA400 F5.6 a lot, but with bears in the forest there is never enough light and the K3 does not give good quality images over ISO 800. The K1 might solve the problem if it gives excellent ISO 1600 or 3200 images.

For the best adrenaline rush nothing beats the 200mm F2.8

reh321 · 03-26-2016, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by RGlasel

... I don't have any pictures of whooping cranes (I've only come across them once in my time in Saskatchewan), which are larger than trumpeter swans, but they winter in Texas, so I don't think they get as far east as St. Louis..

Sixty years ago, whooping cranes were nearly extinct {they were on a U.S. postage stamp in 1958 as part of the publicity to save them}. One weapon in the arsenal of biologists is diversity, so in this case they took some whooping crane eggs from their original nests and put them in sandhill crane nests; the result was mingling of whooping crane and sandhill crane flocks, and today multiple flocks include whooping cranes {IIRC the flock that winters in Bosque del Apache is one of the secondary flocks created by adding whooping crane eggs to sandhill crane nests}. One of the flocks stops at the Jasper-Pulaski park in Indiana on their migration {my wife and I saw them some years back}. My wife isn't sure whether this is the Bosque del Apache flock or not, but in any case, their navigation routes are not necessarily straight north-south, so the flock that comes through Indiana could very easily also go through St. Louis.

I probably need to find and rescan this slide {I scanned it with my first scanner, which wasn't nearly as good as my current one}, but it shows the flock of bird-watchers attracted to the Jasper-Pulaski park by migrating whooping cranes in the fall of 1989

**RGlasel** · 03-26-2016, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by reh321

they took some whooping crane eggs from their original nests and put them in sandhill crane nests; the result was mingling of whooping crane and sandhill crane flocks

I'm not an expert on whooping cranes, but for their own safety, they should avoid sandhill cranes in Saskatchewan. Here (and I assume other places as well) you can shoot sandhill cranes with a Browning as well as with a Kodak Brownie.

03-25-2016, 12:55 PM - 1 Like	#80
derekkite Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nelson B.C. Posts: 3,782	Zooms are less expensive but not as sharp. A 400f4 would be very interesting. 300 f2.8 on full frame is almost a portrait lens. You know how to tell how many Pentax shooters there are in a crowd? Wait till it rains. Long shooters are in my experience serious photographers that have multiple bodies and a collection of lenses. These are target consumers, you either have all their sales or none of them. Last edited by derekkite; 03-25-2016 at 01:47 PM.

03-25-2016, 07:42 PM	#88
oneill Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 624	Sometimes the DA560 is too long! Originally posted by RGlasel How is that combination to handle in the "field"? Do you find the DA 560 keeps you too far away from the bears that you want a shorter lens so you can get up close and personal? Actually sometimes the DA560 is too long and I use my FA400 F5.6 a lot, but with bears in the forest there is never enough light and the K3 does not give good quality images over ISO 800. The K1 might solve the problem if it gives excellent ISO 1600 or 3200 images. For the best adrenaline rush nothing beats the 200mm F2.8

03-26-2016, 06:44 AM	#89
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,175	Originally posted by RGlasel ... I don't have any pictures of whooping cranes (I've only come across them once in my time in Saskatchewan), which are larger than trumpeter swans, but they winter in Texas, so I don't think they get as far east as St. Louis.. Sixty years ago, whooping cranes were nearly extinct {they were on a U.S. postage stamp in 1958 as part of the publicity to save them}. One weapon in the arsenal of biologists is diversity, so in this case they took some whooping crane eggs from their original nests and put them in sandhill crane nests; the result was mingling of whooping crane and sandhill crane flocks, and today multiple flocks include whooping cranes {IIRC the flock that winters in Bosque del Apache is one of the secondary flocks created by adding whooping crane eggs to sandhill crane nests}. One of the flocks stops at the Jasper-Pulaski park in Indiana on their migration {my wife and I saw them some years back}. My wife isn't sure whether this is the Bosque del Apache flock or not, but in any case, their navigation routes are not necessarily straight north-south, so the flock that comes through Indiana could very easily also go through St. Louis. I probably need to find and rescan this slide {I scanned it with my first scanner, which wasn't nearly as good as my current one}, but it shows the flock of bird-watchers attracted to the Jasper-Pulaski park by migrating whooping cranes in the fall of 1989 Last edited by reh321; 03-26-2016 at 07:05 AM.

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03-25-2016, 10:31 AM	#76
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,227	Originally posted by Zygonyx Just take a big potato bag on your second shoulder Add a K-1 to either lens and you have a 10kg package! An award winning Canon wildlife photographer that I am acquainted with does have a 600mm prime, but instead of standing on the side of the road cheek and jowl with other photographers, he uses blinds, remote triggers and/or hikes into remote locations far away from other humans. Many of his best photographs are taken at 300mm on a FF camera. But if you want bragging rights without spending hours in hip waders in a cold marsh, or wilderness camping for weeks, then the longer your lens is, the better it looks even if your pictures themselves aren't very impressive.

03-25-2016, 11:01 AM	#77
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Before Pentax bellies up to extreme telephoto they'll need to make serious improvements to autofocus, which they seem to understand. A $10,000 lens isn't much use if it finds focus half a second after the bird has moved. That's the best argument for 'later' on the supertele's.

03-25-2016, 12:26 PM	#78
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by jpzk I was thinking about a "prime" lens rather than a zoom. I know but a fact of life is that lenses in this speed and focal lenght range is taken over by zooms.

03-25-2016, 12:42 PM	#79
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,032	Agreed

03-25-2016, 12:56 PM	#81
gorme Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Galway - Ireland Posts: 213	Well a 'light' 400mm f/4 would be a really good prime in the telephoto range. I use my 120-400mm (from Sigma) in the 350-400mm range most of the time and the f/5.6 is a bit too dark for some of my needs...

03-25-2016, 01:11 PM	#82
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	There is a 'Million Dollar Mile' here in St. Louis - the Mississippi Flyway - where eagles and some sort of large swan winter over. Though I don't shoot long my wife and I venture up to the 'River Road Scenic Parkway' a couple times a winter. It's actually about twenty miles of wooded limestone bluffs above the Alton Pool behind Lock & Dam #26, with multiple shooting locations strung along the shore. On any given bright, cold January day there are tens of hundreds of shooters with heavy tripods and gimbals and 600mm+ lenses lined up shoulder to shoulder at multiple locations. That scene is repeated for hundreds of miles above and below St. Louis during the winter months. Sure, lenses last forever. But they aren't making any more legacy lenses and as the activity grows the users at the top buy new, pass down the old and AF lenses replace the classic MF lenses throughout the range. It's a bigger potential market over time than many would think. The good news is the buyers will still be here next year and the year after, etc. Pentax won't be permanently barred if they don't have something big in 2017.

03-25-2016, 02:07 PM	#83
derekkite Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nelson B.C. Posts: 3,782	Originally posted by monochrome There is a 'Million Dollar Mile' here in St. Louis - the Mississippi Flyway - where eagles and some sort of large swan winter over. Though I don't shoot long my wife and I venture up to the 'River Road Scenic Parkway' a couple times a winter. It's actually about twenty miles of wooded limestone bluffs above the Alton Pool behind Lock & Dam #26, with multiple shooting locations strung along the shore. On any given bright, cold January day there are tens of hundreds of shooters with heavy tripods and gimbals and 600mm+ lenses lined up shoulder to shoulder at multiple locations. That scene is repeated for hundreds of miles above and below St. Louis during the winter months. Sure, lenses last forever. But they aren't making any more legacy lenses and as the activity grows the users at the top buy new, pass down the old and AF lenses replace the classic MF lenses throughout the range. It's a bigger potential market over time than many would think. The good news is the buyers will still be here next year and the year after, etc. Pentax won't be permanently barred if they don't have something big in 2017. Except that people who want to buy long won't buy Pentax. There is a huge difference between now and the last years of Hoya. My K lenses have a place. That wasn't the case not too long ago. The 150-450 is a natural for a 'field camera' and seems to have had some market success. The K1 is a serious body built to sell, and I suspect many apsc shooters are wondering how long we will have to wait for the K1 goodness. Ricoh is smart and will bring out a new 300 f4 when the stocks of the DA* run down. Faster focus, HD. I suspect they will look carefully and bring out a long lens probably 400 or 500 mm with a nice set of tc's. Not all at once, and there probably will be the Tamron available for the long zooms. The Nikon 300 pf is a striking lens and that technology would be interesting in something longer.

03-25-2016, 02:43 PM	#84
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,227	Originally posted by monochrome some sort of large swan winter over. Trumpeter swans like these? (I didn't have the DA 55-300 then, so a manual focus SMC A 70-210 had to do). This is uncropped. I stopped on the Trans-Canada Highway between Moose Jaw and Swift Current where there is a single viewing platform and a few information signs regarding Reed Lake being part of the Western Hemisphere Shorebird Reserve Network. Over a period of 45 minutes, I was alone (except for the highway traffic less than 100 yards away. I don't have any pictures of whooping cranes (I've only come across them once in my time in Saskatchewan), which are larger than trumpeter swans, but they winter in Texas, so I don't think they get as far east as St. Louis. For the price of one of these long lenses, a serious birder could make a few trips to Canada. But the opportunity to demonstrate conspicuous consumption isn't as good. I'm not being critical, I just wanted to add a bit of perspective.

03-25-2016, 04:26 PM	#85
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by derekkite Except that people who want to buy long won't buy Pentax. One hopes Pentax continually improves the AF, has more successes like the 645z and (apparent) K-1 and D-FA 70~200 and, when the time is right, they bring stellar long lenses that people who want to buy long will buy.

03-25-2016, 05:57 PM	#86
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	Feeling pedantic today. The weight of a Trumpeter Swan is 9.4-11.6 kg whereas that of a Whooping Crane is 6.2-7.3 kg. So the Whooping Crane is taller than a Trumpeter but the swan is decidedly heavier.

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03-25-2016, 07:04 PM	#87
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by RGlasel Trumpeter swans like these? Yes! Trumpeter Swans. 960 over wintered at Alton / St. Louis 2011-2012. They've been quite the rage since the flock has grown so large, similar to Bald Eagles when I was in High School in the 70's. Eagles are now common enough that few take notice of them aside from birders and photographers.

03-26-2016, 07:46 AM	#90
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,227	Originally posted by reh321 they took some whooping crane eggs from their original nests and put them in sandhill crane nests; the result was mingling of whooping crane and sandhill crane flocks I'm not an expert on whooping cranes, but for their own safety, they should avoid sandhill cranes in Saskatchewan. Here (and I assume other places as well) you can shoot sandhill cranes with a Browning as well as with a Kodak Brownie.