K-1 Demo day at the Camerastore

mee · 03-31-2016, 05:03 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pathdoc

I'm not sure he did. Most trolls expect uncontrolled outrage and starting of fights; this one got belittled and laughed at. Ridicule is a powerful weapon.

Most trolls just seem to want a rise out of their target.. in this case, they got 2 pages worth. Mission accomplished for them.

normhead · 03-31-2016, 06:00 AM

Originally posted by mee

Strange, uncouth behavior to me.. if you're that bored, please step away from the computer keyboard.

Quote:

: behaving in a rude way : not polite or socially acceptable

Are you living in a monastery?

We are champions of couth here.

Quote:

Most trolls just seem to want a rise out of their target.. in this case, they got 2 pages worth. Mission accomplished for them.

A post like that is like saying "Come play baseball." it's an invitation. Some of us like playing baseball, some of us don't. Are you getting all high and mighty on us, because you don't like baseball? Please, the goal of the forum is not to impose your sense of morality on the rest of us.

Each of us deals with the incongruous in our own way. And to be honest, if the guy had come in here and asked " How do you guys deal with not having on board flash?" 15 people would have jumped in to help him. But he chose to make an extremely immature post that indicated an opinion so unthought out and immature that there was no decent starting point to converse.

Right now, you are trolling on the same level he did.

It's really hard to come up with a cogent response to someone who claims their dumping a brand they've used 40 years because of a lack of on board flash. It's also really difficult to converse with a person who just called you uncouth.

Is that why you identify with this dude?

Rupert · 03-31-2016, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by Glen220

It does not have a fill flash? I won't own a camera that doesn't have fill flash. I have no use for astrotracking/GPS, but have a lot of use for a flash.

After shooting Pentax for 40 years, my next camera is going to be a Canon.

*Before anyone gets in a panic or get their panties in a wad.....Otis Squirrel has express permission form the owner of this site to address "Jumpers".....and Otis sees a Jumper.

Go for it Otis......

Dear Jumper,
Ordinarily I would spend some of my valuable time in correcting your inflammatory post and your misconception of what a professional camera needs to do. Unfortunately, I find you unworthy of my time and your post ridiculous, and most of all just plain sad. You go home to Canon....it is so obvious that is where you belong.

Beast Regards!

Otis Squirrel

Parallax · 03-31-2016, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by pathdoc

I'm not sure he did. Most trolls expect uncontrolled outrage and starting of fights; this one got belittled and laughed at. Ridicule is a powerful weapon.

Originally posted by normhead

Some of us like playing baseball, some of us don't.

Not referencing any poster or post; just speaking in generalities................
There are two basic ways to deal with a troll.
1: Ignore it
2. Feed it copious amounts of something it dosen't like.

The latter is more fun, and often the more effective way of stuffing them back under the bridge.

**jatrax** · 03-31-2016, 07:25 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by normhead

who claims their dumping a brand they've used 40 years because of a lack of on board flash.

On a camera they do not have to buy, in a format that has never been offered before, to go to a brand that also has no on board flash on the equivalent camera.

Originally posted by Parallax

There are two basic ways to deal with a troll.

What is a troll that lies quiet for 18 months before posting? A sleeper troll? Stealth troll? Not mentioning any particular posters of course, just wondering if this is a new thing.

Of course this might not be a case of trolling. I can think of someone like my dad, who only signs in here once every year or so, spots a post that forces a response, posts, signs out and doesn't come back for another year.
Just because the result of something is negative does not mean the original intent was. (Just offering a positive spin as an alternative)

normhead · 03-31-2016, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

Of course this might not be a case of trolling. I can think of someone like my dad, who only signs in here once every year or so, spots a post that forces a response, posts, signs out and doesn't come back for another year.

Kind of drive a by troll.

But I always suspect the "me too" troll, which is also kind of the "pied piper" troll. The guy who honestly thinks he's discovered a fatal flaw in the camera system, that no-one else has noticed, and who expects that as soon as he points it out, everyone will drop their plans and do what he suggests.

We were all supposed to say.

"Wow, what a great observation. I'm going to ditch Pentax and buy Canon, just like that guy, I mean cause, clearly he's brilliant.He noticed that there's no onboard flash on a K-1. He must be a genius."

That's the response the guy was asking for, based on syntax and presentation. What people do with that is a crap shoot.

His post left nothing open to discussion. It was take it or leave it. It wasn't a chance to interact. It was "this is my opinion, I don't care what you think."

He put up a target for people to throw darts at. Some of us enjoy a good game of darts.

totsmuyco · 03-31-2016, 04:13 PM

Oh my, the k-1 doesn't have a flash? That's terrible! But wait, the k-3II doesn't have a flash and I own one! Most of all I like it! Other than that, other FF pro cameras don't an on board flash too!

If you wanna leave, leave. I'm sure you'll be happy with your choice.

Parallax · 03-31-2016, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

Oh my, the k-1 doesn't have a flash? That's terrible! But wait, the k-3II doesn't have a flash and I own one! Most of all I like it! Other than that, other FF pro cameras don't an on board flash too!

If you wanna leave, leave. I'm sure you'll be happy with your choice.

I've heard rumors that there are multiple apparatus that compensate for the lack of on board flash; but I don't always believe rumors.

**jatrax** · 03-31-2016, 04:57 PM

Not to interject anything camera related into this discussion but will an on-board flash even work with the new lenses? DFA 15-30 or DFA 24-70 or DFA 70-200? Or will they cause a shadow?

Parallax · 03-31-2016, 05:16 PM

The 24-70 maybe, but I doubt that an on board flash whose beam was spread wide enough to cover 15mm on FF would have a guide number high enough to be of any use.

**jatrax** · 03-31-2016, 05:39 PM

I was thinking that big front element and hood on the 24-70 would be in the road, but maybe not.

reh321 · 03-31-2016, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by Glen220

It does not have a fill flash? I won't own a camera that doesn't have fill flash. I have no use for astrotracking/GPS, but have a lot of use for a flash.

After shooting Pentax for 40 years, my next camera is going to be a Canon.

Go for it!!
I came back to Pentax after twenty years using Canon, because I found the quality of their bodies to be inadequate. I'd rather buy a flash than buy another body because the previous one died prematurely.

MadMathMind · 03-31-2016, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

I was thinking that big front element and hood on the 24-70 would be in the road, but maybe not.

The Sigma 18-35 casts a shadow at everything but the long end of the zoom IF you take the hood off. The Bigsig is 121mm long. The DFA24-70 is 109mm long but extends as you zoom. I'd say you'd get limited use out of the popup flash on a FF camera--perhaps past 40mm or so? It would probably be ok on an APS-C.

Should be ok with the DFA70-200. I used an onboard with my Sigma 70-200 and that worked without issue. I only made it go about 6 feet, though.

noser · 03-31-2016, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by lukulele

...Display cases were filled!

... and that's the way a proper store is run. And glad you had a good experience here! Come back for Stampede; the city loses it's collective mind for 10 days.

I was only ever in SC one time on an off-interstate road trip. Holy cow I never expected that much green life growing everywhere. Guess it was the fact it isn't a flippin' desert like here 10 months of the year.

So... now that the US$ is favourable - y'know it might be worth a little online shopping...

thibs · 04-01-2016, 01:14 AM

I handled K-1 and 24-70 as most of you already know. I would be VERY surprised if an hypothetical embedded flash would have caused anything but a big shadow.

These new lenses are *massive*.
Tamron 17-50 users, from a mass/shape/espace point of view, you really got a TOY.

03-31-2016, 06:00 AM	#77
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,450	Originally posted by mee Strange, uncouth behavior to me.. if you're that bored, please step away from the computer keyboard. Quote: : behaving in a rude way : not polite or socially acceptable Are you living in a monastery? We are champions of couth here. Quote: Most trolls just seem to want a rise out of their target.. in this case, they got 2 pages worth. Mission accomplished for them. A post like that is like saying "Come play baseball." it's an invitation. Some of us like playing baseball, some of us don't. Are you getting all high and mighty on us, because you don't like baseball? Please, the goal of the forum is not to impose your sense of morality on the rest of us. Each of us deals with the incongruous in our own way. And to be honest, if the guy had come in here and asked " How do you guys deal with not having on board flash?" 15 people would have jumped in to help him. But he chose to make an extremely immature post that indicated an opinion so unthought out and immature that there was no decent starting point to converse. Right now, you are trolling on the same level he did. It's really hard to come up with a cogent response to someone who claims their dumping a brand they've used 40 years because of a lack of on board flash. It's also really difficult to converse with a person who just called you uncouth. Is that why you identify with this dude? Last edited by normhead; 03-31-2016 at 06:14 AM.

03-31-2016, 08:21 AM	#81
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,450	Originally posted by jatrax Of course this might not be a case of trolling. I can think of someone like my dad, who only signs in here once every year or so, spots a post that forces a response, posts, signs out and doesn't come back for another year. Kind of drive a by troll. But I always suspect the "me too" troll, which is also kind of the "pied piper" troll. The guy who honestly thinks he's discovered a fatal flaw in the camera system, that no-one else has noticed, and who expects that as soon as he points it out, everyone will drop their plans and do what he suggests. We were all supposed to say. "Wow, what a great observation. I'm going to ditch Pentax and buy Canon, just like that guy, I mean cause, clearly he's brilliant.He noticed that there's no onboard flash on a K-1. He must be a genius." That's the response the guy was asking for, based on syntax and presentation. What people do with that is a crap shoot. His post left nothing open to discussion. It was take it or leave it. It wasn't a chance to interact. It was "this is my opinion, I don't care what you think." He put up a target for people to throw darts at. Some of us enjoy a good game of darts. Last edited by normhead; 03-31-2016 at 04:57 PM.

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03-31-2016, 05:03 AM - 1 Like	#76
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by pathdoc I'm not sure he did. Most trolls expect uncontrolled outrage and starting of fights; this one got belittled and laughed at. Ridicule is a powerful weapon. Most trolls just seem to want a rise out of their target.. in this case, they got 2 pages worth. Mission accomplished for them.

03-31-2016, 06:50 AM	#78
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Originally posted by Glen220 It does not have a fill flash? I won't own a camera that doesn't have fill flash. I have no use for astrotracking/GPS, but have a lot of use for a flash. After shooting Pentax for 40 years, my next camera is going to be a Canon. *Before anyone gets in a panic or get their panties in a wad.....Otis Squirrel has express permission form the owner of this site to address "Jumpers".....and Otis sees a Jumper. Go for it Otis...... Dear Jumper, Ordinarily I would spend some of my valuable time in correcting your inflammatory post and your misconception of what a professional camera needs to do. Unfortunately, I find you unworthy of my time and your post ridiculous, and most of all just plain sad. You go home to Canon....it is so obvious that is where you belong. Beast Regards! Otis Squirrel

03-31-2016, 06:54 AM	#79
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by pathdoc I'm not sure he did. Most trolls expect uncontrolled outrage and starting of fights; this one got belittled and laughed at. Ridicule is a powerful weapon. Originally posted by normhead Some of us like playing baseball, some of us don't. Not referencing any poster or post; just speaking in generalities................ There are two basic ways to deal with a troll. 1: Ignore it 2. Feed it copious amounts of something it dosen't like. The latter is more fun, and often the more effective way of stuffing them back under the bridge.

03-31-2016, 07:25 AM - 1 Like	#80
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by normhead who claims their dumping a brand they've used 40 years because of a lack of on board flash. On a camera they do not have to buy, in a format that has never been offered before, to go to a brand that also has no on board flash on the equivalent camera. Originally posted by Parallax There are two basic ways to deal with a troll. What is a troll that lies quiet for 18 months before posting? A sleeper troll? Stealth troll? Not mentioning any particular posters of course, just wondering if this is a new thing. Of course this might not be a case of trolling. I can think of someone like my dad, who only signs in here once every year or so, spots a post that forces a response, posts, signs out and doesn't come back for another year. Just because the result of something is negative does not mean the original intent was. (Just offering a positive spin as an alternative)

03-31-2016, 04:13 PM	#82
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	Oh my, the k-1 doesn't have a flash? That's terrible! But wait, the k-3II doesn't have a flash and I own one! Most of all I like it! Other than that, other FF pro cameras don't an on board flash too! If you wanna leave, leave. I'm sure you'll be happy with your choice.

03-31-2016, 04:21 PM	#83
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by totsmuyco Oh my, the k-1 doesn't have a flash? That's terrible! But wait, the k-3II doesn't have a flash and I own one! Most of all I like it! Other than that, other FF pro cameras don't an on board flash too! If you wanna leave, leave. I'm sure you'll be happy with your choice. I've heard rumors that there are multiple apparatus that compensate for the lack of on board flash; but I don't always believe rumors.

03-31-2016, 04:57 PM	#84
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Not to interject anything camera related into this discussion but will an on-board flash even work with the new lenses? DFA 15-30 or DFA 24-70 or DFA 70-200? Or will they cause a shadow?

03-31-2016, 05:16 PM	#85
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	The 24-70 maybe, but I doubt that an on board flash whose beam was spread wide enough to cover 15mm on FF would have a guide number high enough to be of any use.

03-31-2016, 05:39 PM	#86
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	I was thinking that big front element and hood on the 24-70 would be in the road, but maybe not.

03-31-2016, 05:47 PM	#87
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,175	Originally posted by Glen220 It does not have a fill flash? I won't own a camera that doesn't have fill flash. I have no use for astrotracking/GPS, but have a lot of use for a flash. After shooting Pentax for 40 years, my next camera is going to be a Canon. Go for it!! I came back to Pentax after twenty years using Canon, because I found the quality of their bodies to be inadequate. I'd rather buy a flash than buy another body because the previous one died prematurely.

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03-31-2016, 08:37 PM	#88
MadMathMind Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,717	Originally posted by jatrax I was thinking that big front element and hood on the 24-70 would be in the road, but maybe not. The Sigma 18-35 casts a shadow at everything but the long end of the zoom IF you take the hood off. The Bigsig is 121mm long. The DFA24-70 is 109mm long but extends as you zoom. I'd say you'd get limited use out of the popup flash on a FF camera--perhaps past 40mm or so? It would probably be ok on an APS-C. Should be ok with the DFA70-200. I used an onboard with my Sigma 70-200 and that worked without issue. I only made it go about 6 feet, though.

03-31-2016, 09:08 PM	#89
noser Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Calgary, AB CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 292	Originally posted by lukulele ...Display cases were filled! ... and that's the way a proper store is run. And glad you had a good experience here! Come back for Stampede; the city loses it's collective mind for 10 days. I was only ever in SC one time on an off-interstate road trip. Holy cow I never expected that much green life growing everywhere. Guess it was the fact it isn't a flippin' desert like here 10 months of the year. So... now that the US$ is favourable - y'know it might be worth a little online shopping...

04-01-2016, 01:14 AM	#90
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	I handled K-1 and 24-70 as most of you already know. I would be VERY surprised if an hypothetical embedded flash would have caused anything but a big shadow. These new lenses are massive. Tamron 17-50 users, from a mass/shape/espace point of view, you really got a TOY.