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07-16-2008, 09:09 AM   #211
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
dual 4 gig and it's struggling with a 15 meg tiff?

I don't care if it's got 20 layers...



Time to get a Mac.

Cheers,
Cameron
Macs are great, luv 'em to death, but I have a Windoze PC at home with very average specs (similar to yours) and I work with multi-layered 16-bit Photoshop files that are often a couple of hundred megs in size without much problem. Sounds like your PC is sick. Are you running XP or Vista?

07-16-2008, 09:12 AM   #212
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Photoshop performance...

QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
Now I have a 4GB dual core PC with a high speed graphics card and its already struggling with 15MP TIFF files when I have a couple of layers open in photoshop.
QuoteOriginally posted by gkopeliadis Quote
What kind of Macbook you have? Mine is stragling with 10mp ones


Do you guys have enough RAM? I'm on a 9 year old dual 450 with 2 gigs RAM, 64 meg video card, and several hard drives running CS1, and mine only starts to bog if the file's well over 100 megs. I have two internal and three external hard drives. 15 meg tiffs, even with 12-15 layers, no problem.

Maybe a second hard drive is in order - photoshop runs best with a second scratch drive, and ideally 3 hdd's - I running the OS, I running photoshop, and your files on a third.

Or maybe you know all this. Just trying to help, but what you are describing just doesn't sound right.

Cheers,
Cameron
07-16-2008, 09:37 AM   #213
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To Matjazz & falconeye :

QuoteQuote:
acording to the french site Sony is as big as Canon
Yes, this the volume repartition for the whole photography market including Point & Shot and DSLR, therefore overrepresenting Point & Shot (average value being obviously lower than DLSR)

My reasonning is that DSLR development is not only driven by competition inside the DSLR market but also by image issues in the P&S segment (including bridges and so on) This is were the diagram I cited make sense : Sony entered the DSLR market (high in individual value, but small in respect to the overall photo market), Samsung is following.

IMO, Pentax developments are driven by Samsung priorities. Which is not bad news for the long term future of the K-mount system.
07-16-2008, 01:33 PM   #214
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and in case you didn't think Samsung is in the megapixel race:
Samsung NV100HD offers high density specification: Digital Photography Review

14.7mpix in a P&S...I'll bet that'll do well in low light...not :-p

I'm sure they'd stuff a 28mpix sensor in a FF SLR now if they could... :-)

07-16-2008, 01:51 PM   #215
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QuoteOriginally posted by PedroErnestoGuerraAzevedo Quote
In first place it needs urgent to improve its system of Auto Focus, Continuous Drive, at least 6 FPS, Live View, high ISO with quality, without no noise, Image stabilization, leaving at least in the same level of the competition or very better.

To have a complete system APS , she must have at least the following options of cameras and lenses to start:

1- Camera of entrance = K 1000D
2- Fans = K 300D
3- Semi-pro = K 30D
4- Professionals K 2D (APS)


And already to start to produce lenses full frame.
I agree with your priorities.
07-16-2008, 06:24 PM   #216
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote


Maybe a second hard drive is in order - photoshop runs best with a second scratch drive, and ideally 3 hdd's - I running the OS, I running photoshop, and your files on a third.
If your HDD's still use an ATA/IDE interface (at 9 years age they most certainly do), that won't make much difference, as only one can be acessed at a time, no concurrent transfers.
07-17-2008, 02:12 AM   #217
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Firstly, I don't believe in overkill. Secondly, image quality from todays sensors aren't as great as people make it out to be. Thats why I'm still using film.
A prominent wildlife photographer, after having talked about the plusses of cropped sensor, said that 2,4mp is all you ever going to need. Thats right folks; 2,4mp. Let me cite from his book: "At 2.4mp I'm not giving up or scarificing anything. In the barest of terms, if I were sacrificing quality I would simply be out of business". He is now using the D3, which as you probably know, is full frame and 12mp. I'll bet than in five years time his camera has 20+mp.
Life is full of tradeoffs. Since you are a film shooter, let me ask: Do you shoot 35mm or MF? If the former, then you have made such a tradeoff. You have sacrificed some IQ for smaller size, lower cost and greater convenience. And if you shoot MF, I'm sure you would agree that even in the heyday of film, most photographers used 35mm and were generally satisfied, because it produced results that met their needs.

If you really insist on the absolute best IQ, then how can you be satisfied with anything less than a MF digital camera or camera back? This is not meant as a flippant question, but rather as a means of demonstrating that most of us make compromises in one way or another. By all means feel free to get a FF high MP SLR, but don't kid yourself that it will be in the same league as a Leaf or PhaseOne back.
07-17-2008, 05:31 AM   #218
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I certainly hope Pentax's approach to the market is a liken to the "toirtoise vs the Hare parable" because I simply can't ever see them as a major player in the world camera market the way things are now.

Considering how brilliant the K10D is - I bet you more Nikon D80's are sold over this camera.(which to me is more expensive by far and inferior spec for spec) How can this be???

This is purely a fault of the Pentax marketing machine - or simply the lack of.

Even my 21 year old son who has just started out in photography knows the Nikon/Canon brand over Pentax and these days with the younger generation its all about being part of the in crowd and not being called a dweeb for choosing a so called "inferior brand" like Pentax - even Sony has a better following and they are new comers.

His first words when I bought the camera was "why a no-name brand" and I had to hard sell the brand to him - the camera is just a tool, weather sealing, excellent lenses etc etc and of course my pics speak for themselves.

This perception will carry on to assignments with clients (weddings etc) being more comfortable with Nikon/Canon user.

At any Surf pro event all you will see here are C/N/S's used by advanced amateurs and pro's.

The same with Fashion shoots and any other sporting event you might think of anywhere in the world.

The whole Pentax name is hard sell compared to the other brands and hence no shop likes to have slow moving hard sell inventory on their hands.

Even Oly has more presence in the shops compared to Pentax - go figure

Creating a FF Pentax SLR will not change future customer perceptions or sales.

Pentax needs to create more awareness of its brand, stock shops with a few brilliant products which blow away (price for price) the competition with no QC issues- give the shop owners incentives to promote the Pentax brand etc etc

The only way they will get the "pro" sport photogs to look up - is to up the game of 20D so it competes and thrashes price for price the Nikon D300 and have some 300mm 2.8 glass which once again thrashes the competition with IQ VS excellent price

This should be priority over the full frame right now for Pentax

Even now there is not one K20D on the shelves?? Sony, Oly, Nikon, Fuji, Canon all the new models in their glory - WTH? Absurd!

Marketing & Promotion are absolutely paramount to create brand and the spin off is a higher customer awareness.

Pentax needs to get a fire lit under its ass and start believing it has great products and get them out there.

07-17-2008, 06:39 AM   #219
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QuoteOriginally posted by dylansalt Quote
Even now there is not one K20D on the shelves??
Actually, Ritz Camera here in the US has the K20D on their shelves. Only the kit lens, but they're willing to order lenses for you.
07-17-2008, 09:24 AM   #220
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
Life is full of tradeoffs. Since you are a film shooter, let me ask: Do you shoot 35mm or MF? If the former, then you have made such a tradeoff. You have sacrificed some IQ for smaller size, lower cost and greater convenience. And if you shoot MF, I'm sure you would agree that even in the heyday of film, most photographers used 35mm and were generally satisfied, because it produced results that met their needs.

If you really insist on the absolute best IQ, then how can you be satisfied with anything less than a MF digital camera or camera back? This is not meant as a flippant question, but rather as a means of demonstrating that most of us make compromises in one way or another. By all means feel free to get a FF high MP SLR, but don't kid yourself that it will be in the same league as a Leaf or PhaseOne back.

I shoot both MF and 35mm; thats why a large mp FF camera is such good idea as it efffectively fuses both worlds. It is not about absolute quality; it is about quality/price/hassle ratio. Thats what made 35mm popular. "Everyone" would want large format quality out of their slr's but it wasn't possible. Better image quality costed too much both in money and hassle (a large format camera is a real hassle in use). Theres always a trade-off but the tradeoff may change to the better with technology. Digital backs are not for use outside studios and cost more than the wast majority can afford. Hence, they are no alternative as the hassle and cost ratio are far to large for most...
In hassle I also include weight because over a certain value it becomes a real anchor limiting its popularity and potential...
07-17-2008, 10:25 AM   #221
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Not much New

Well, looks like after 5 months since my last visit, not much has changed. I just saw for the first time yesterday that Nikon had the D700 out, which pretty much shocked me. Other than price, what an awesome camera. Figured by now I'd find something similar from Pentax, so I logged into the forum to see what is new. Find something on FF in the news section, and as it would be it looks like we are talking about a 645 again.

I'm not in the market right now, but am disappointed that there isn't a pentax version of the 5d and now 700d. A full frame sensor in a normal 35mm digital sized body. hmmmm............

Guess I just need to go away from the camera forums and news stands for 5 or 6 years next time, instead of 5 or 6 months, and maybe Pentax will have a clue by then.
07-17-2008, 10:26 AM   #222
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QuoteOriginally posted by txbonds Quote
Well, looks like after 5 months since my last visit, not much has changed. I just saw for the first time yesterday that Nikon had the D700 out, which pretty much shocked me. Other than price, what an awesome camera. Figured by now I'd find something similar from Pentax, so I logged into the forum to see what is new. Find something on FF in the news section, and as it would be it looks like we are talking about a 645 again.

I'm not in the market right now, but am disappointed that there isn't a pentax version of the 5d and now 700d. A full frame sensor in a normal 35mm digital sized body. hmmmm............

Guess I just need to go away from the camera forums and news stands for 5 or 6 years next time, instead of 5 or 6 months, and maybe Pentax will have a clue by then.
You should come back for Photokina
07-17-2008, 11:21 AM   #223
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
You should come back for Photokina
Hope you are right, but I'm not holding my breath.
07-17-2008, 01:25 PM   #224
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QuoteOriginally posted by dylansalt Quote
The whole Pentax name is hard sell compared to the other brands and hence no shop likes to have slow moving hard sell inventory on their hands.

Even Oly has more presence in the shops compared to Pentax - go figure

Creating a FF Pentax SLR will not change future customer perceptions or sales.

Pentax needs to create more awareness of its brand, stock shops with a few brilliant products which blow away (price for price) the competition with no QC issues- give the shop owners incentives to promote the Pentax brand etc etc

The only way they will get the "pro" sport photogs to look up - is to up the game of 20D so it competes and thrashes price for price the Nikon D300 and have some 300mm 2.8 glass which once again thrashes the competition with IQ VS excellent price

This should be priority over the full frame right now for Pentax

Even now there is not one K20D on the shelves?? Sony, Oly, Nikon, Fuji, Canon all the new models in their glory - WTH? Absurd!

Marketing & Promotion are absolutely paramount to create brand and the spin off is a higher customer awareness.

Pentax needs to get a fire lit under its ass and start believing it has great products and get them out there.
This is a big problem - Pentax needs to either:
Drop dealers from their list if they don't meet a certain standard
Encourage dealers on their authorized dealers list to actually carry the product

I have been to at least 3-4 camera stores in New York State that were listed as Pentax Digital SLR dealers. Not a single one of them carried any Pentax products, not even P&S.
(Those would be Hahn Photographic in Rochester, Rowe in Rochester, and Tuthill's in Binghamton/Vestal before they went out of business.)
07-17-2008, 05:51 PM   #225
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QuoteOriginally posted by Entropy Quote
This is a big problem - Pentax needs to either:
Drop dealers from their list if they don't meet a certain standard
Encourage dealers on their authorized dealers list to actually carry the product

I have been to at least 3-4 camera stores in New York State that were listed as Pentax Digital SLR dealers. Not a single one of them carried any Pentax products, not even P&S.
(Those would be Hahn Photographic in Rochester, Rowe in Rochester, and Tuthill's in Binghamton/Vestal before they went out of business.)
I don't think Pentax would be better-served by doing the drop-dealers-from-their-list-if-they-don't-meet-quota thing. I guess Canon and Nikon could do that, considering their strong positions in the market, but for companies playing catch-up like Pentax, not good.

I really think having big consumer electronics retailers like Best Buy carry the Pentax line will be better for them, even if that would seem to "cheapen" (if there is such a word) the brand. Take a hit on image now, then come back with kick-ass pro cameras in the future. It doesn't hurt Canon's and Nikon's rep that they have some of their wares in mass-market electronics stores.

To note, for all the prestige Leica camera and lenses get, they're not much players in the DSLR market, which I believe is what Pentax/Hoya wants.

Just my two cents.
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