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07-22-2008, 05:21 AM   #241
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
"Pentax has never been professional" ??????? WHAT????

Pentax was the ipso facto Pro Camera for all of us Fashion Photographers before digital came out and NO it was not the 645, but the 67 that we were all using. Pentax lost their ground when digital hit in a big way. I know guys still using the 67.

Pentax has always been professional. They just have to gain ground in the digital arena to win back their lost fans.

Ben



Pentax were also the default choice among landscape photographers. Professional or not....

07-22-2008, 05:40 AM   #242
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
"Pentax has never been professional" ??????? WHAT????

Pentax has always been professional. They just have to gain ground in the digital arena to win back their lost fans.
Ben
Ben,
Since we talking about a more than a 5 years period ( 26-Feb-03 Pentax *ist D announcement), as so far they have not announced a Pro level (ala Canon EOS 1D/s or Nikon D1/2/3 DSLR), and after a hostile take-over you think now they can gain ground in the digital arena ?

5 years in DSLR years would be x2 perhaps x3 years..

You believe they can announce "now" a Pro level DSLR?

Cheers
sam
07-22-2008, 06:08 AM   #243
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QuoteOriginally posted by sharpshoota Quote
Leica is an amateur camera? ....lol You guys are funny. If you put an amateur photographer behind a 1DS-MKIII it becomes an amateur camera.

Without AF and burst Leicas are out of the business: godsend build and optical quality, lots of masters using them, but they aren't really pro from 1935 So my 1954 Rolleiflex screams "pro" but it's not really pro

I think more and more that Pentax will put Samsung FF sensor on the frozen 645 body: medium format market will appreciate a good camera for a 4 digit price. If you can't fight Nikon, fight Mamiya
07-22-2008, 06:26 AM   #244
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is it September yet?... time passes by so slowly in summer...

07-22-2008, 09:06 AM   #245
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
Hi,



I have read (but cannot confirm) that good ASA 100 film had a resolution comparable to a 22 MP FF sensor. So you can expect ses to have been targeted at this. More resolution will put more demands on lens. Some ple have comlained that the 14 MP of the K20D is already showing the limits of some lenses previously unseen. regarding area an APs sensor has abouut half the surface of a 35 mm film, so quick and dirty math yields a "28 MP 35 mm sensor equivalence" (that is not a rigorous calculation, but serves the purpose). you could suppose that a FF sensor would behave like the K20D in the center.
Except that its not 28MP its 38 MP the 35mm is about 36x24mm. While a APS-C size is 22x15mm. FF has an area of 864 mmSquare and APS-C has 330mm Square. thats 2.61 times more than APS-C. 14.6*2.61 is 38MP. so 28MP is not stretching it.
07-22-2008, 10:00 AM   #246
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IMO the rangefinder market is wide-open. Epson's out, Leica's dubious. Pentax has the lens capability (some spin on pancakes) and it know how to make rugged, cheap cameras.

Canon G9 will get nearterm competition from the new Panaleica and Nikon Coolpix p6000,...all three have tiny sensors and would be whupped by a Pentax APS in that large-pocket-size format.

I'd leap for an APS version of Canon G9...Pentax could easily steal that market.

If I wanted FF I'd pre-order a D700...like everybody else, seemingly. Certainly not a D300! But I'm more than happy with K20D.
07-22-2008, 12:41 PM   #247
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QuoteOriginally posted by janosh Quote
IMO the rangefinder market is wide-open. Epson's out, Leica's dubious. Pentax has the lens capability (some spin on pancakes) and it know how to make rugged, cheap cameras.

Canon G9 will get nearterm competition from the new Panaleica and Nikon Coolpix p6000,...all three have tiny sensors and would be whupped by a Pentax APS in that large-pocket-size format.

I'd leap for an APS version of Canon G9...Pentax could easily steal that market.

If I wanted FF I'd pre-order a D700...like everybody else, seemingly. Certainly not a D300! But I'm more than happy with K20D.
Janosh,

I always said that if Pentax wants to build an image and brand awareness they need "cool and different" products. The sales succes of Sigma DP1 (with all it's shortcomings nonetheless) shows that there is a market for a premium digicam and eventually all major players will do one or more. For Canon or Nikon I don't think there is any technical challenges to make a DP1 vastly improved (meaning a fixed lens camera with either a prime or a zoom lens). But the Pentax trump card are those 3 pankakes which are harder to duplicate in short time. If Pentax can produce a premium small body with K mount and sale it alone or in any combination with the 3 Ltds they may have a winner in economic and marketing terms. And taking into account the target of those the price could be close to K20D. Further more Pentax could sell optical viewfinders to match the focal length of those primes gaining even more.

I fully realise that our sensor it's a bit larger than Sigma's and the camera will need to be bigger but DP1 is trully a very small camera compared even with a K100D.

Radu
07-23-2008, 03:36 PM   #248
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Pentax were also the default choice among landscape photographers. Professional or not....
Sorry:

Hasselblad. Large format cameras. Mamiya (various). And of course, Nikon, Canon, even Leica. Same as in other areas of demanding, no-compromise photography. I loved my 6X7 but it wasn't a great design if one actually wanted to carry it anywhere with a few lenses. It was literally heavier and more bulky than a 4X5 field camera.

645, now a dead format, was an economy format, not a quality format, from the beginning...whether Bronica, Hasselblad, Mamiya, or Pentax.

07-23-2008, 06:42 PM   #249
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QuoteOriginally posted by janosh Quote
Sorry:

Hasselblad. Large format cameras. Mamiya (various). And of course, Nikon, Canon, even Leica. Same as in other areas of demanding, no-compromise photography. I loved my 6X7 but it wasn't a great design if one actually wanted to carry it anywhere with a few lenses. It was literally heavier and more bulky than a 4X5 field camera.

645, now a dead format, was an economy format, not a quality format, from the beginning...whether Bronica, Hasselblad, Mamiya, or Pentax.


Pentax was the No.1 globally with a marketshare up to 50%. Open up any book or magazine on the subject and see the amazing percentage shot with Pentax MF. The Pentaxes were designes as field cameras. The other MF cameras were not. Hassleblad and Mamiya were studio and wedding photographers choices. How many prolific landscape photographers work in the square format? I can recall one. Large format has an extreme low marketshare even in this segment, except for North America, probably due to Ansel Adams and Eliot Porter, but still isn't common. Saying that 645 is not a quality format is patently absurd. What does that make Nikon or Canon? Junk? Not to mention a Hasselblad image not printed square (most)? Dead from the beginning? There was nothing economy about the Pentax 645's. The original Pentax 645 is the most reliable built Pentax ever according to Pentax (and other) service people. It also costed more than the 67. The Pentax 645's are the worlds most sold MF slr. It is also the MF format that might have a future in digital whereas 6X7 is probably gone with film...

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 07-23-2008 at 06:58 PM.
07-23-2008, 06:54 PM   #250
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QuoteOriginally posted by janosh Quote
IMO the rangefinder market is wide-open. .
Pentax will never make a rangefinder regardless of how wide open the market is (maybe theres a reason for its wide openess?). Pentax is an anti-rangefinder company. In fact, Pentax was the company that started the japanese camera manufacturers focus shift from rangefinders to slr's. They have never made a rangefinder - they are firmly rooted in the slr history. Unless Pentax totally change philosophy, something that highly unlikely as Japanese companies are thoroughly conservative in their business profile, the prospect for a Pentax rangefinder is nil. It would also look pretty silly as their main goal now is obviously to get their DSLR and lens-line up complete. Then theres the 645D...
07-24-2008, 01:05 AM   #251
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QuoteOriginally posted by janosh Quote
Sorry:

Hasselblad. Large format cameras. Mamiya (various). And of course, Nikon, Canon, even Leica. Same as in other areas of demanding, no-compromise photography. I loved my 6X7 but it wasn't a great design if one actually wanted to carry it anywhere with a few lenses. It was literally heavier and more bulky than a 4X5 field camera.

645, now a dead format, was an economy format, not a quality format, from the beginning...whether Bronica, Hasselblad, Mamiya, or Pentax.
Maybe on planet New Mexico.... not the rest of the world.
07-24-2008, 05:22 AM   #252
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My own prediction for Photokina in September

For the records...

I predict the following for Photokina in September:
A new entry-level model plus a pro-level model.

The pro-level model will be as following:
  • Same sensor as K20D.
  • A new body.
  • Faster fps.
  • Better and newly designed AF system.
  • Priced at about $1500+
This is not the new FF model which should emerge in 2009 only.

I should add that I don't normally do predictions w/o at least some information.
07-24-2008, 06:51 AM   #253
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
For the records...

I predict the following for Photokina in September:
A new entry-level model plus a pro-level model.

The pro-level model will be as following:
  • Same sensor as K20D.
  • A new body.
  • Faster fps.
  • Better and newly designed AF system.
  • Priced at about $1500+
This is not the new FF model which should emerge in 2009 only.

I should add that I don't normally do predictions w/o at least some information.

Falconeye,

It's the logical thing to do and Hoya acts kind of different than the old Pentax. I have my infos too and people say that money are almost no object and many great things will come soon and at least here market share it's growing especially with K200D sales.

to your feature list I may add:

- better LCD;
- faster shutter speeds 1/8000 + 1/250 flash
- new mettering system;
- Prime 2 processor (I don't know commercial name yet).

Radu
07-24-2008, 07:55 AM   #254
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
For the records...

I predict the following for Photokina in September:
A new entry-level model plus a pro-level model.

The pro-level model will be as following:
  • Same sensor as K20D.
  • A new body.
  • Faster fps.
  • Better and newly designed AF system.
  • Priced at about $1500+
QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote

to your feature list I may add:

- better LCD;
- faster shutter speeds 1/8000 + 1/250 flash
- new mettering system;
- Prime 2 processor (I don't know commercial name yet).

Radu
Well, I hope you guys are right ...I'd buy that. The only other area I would like to see some improvement on is the flash system. I like what Nikon does: The ability to control Multi off camera flashes and use different ratio's for up to four groups.

Mike.
07-24-2008, 10:55 AM   #255
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
to your feature list I may add:
My feature list wasn't my wish list. I have no information about the items on your list. If you do, you are more than welcome to add them to my list
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