[vinzer]

Yeah. Ogl, you really do have an unfortunate tendency to state your guesses in the form of facts.

That, and posting the exact same reply in multiple threads. Sorry Ogl, I enjoy your speculations, but it wouldn't hurt some to rephrase your thoughts. Of course, that's plain nitpicking on my part. Nothing big or important.

Allow me to be blunt and direct, and remember that im open to any input, I don't know everything and I might be missing the big picture (pun intended):

but:
WHAT THE HELL is the fixation and hype/lunacy with full frame and keeping up with the jones' (nikon, sony and canon) here?

Maybe not FF itself, but a firm commitment by Hoya to keep the K-mount alive is what I believe people are looking for. Most releases by Pentax up to this point have mostly been done and planned for under the old regime. Photokina will be telling, I think.

[RMabo]

FF is not this year. Small camera is ready. K20Ds wil be too, but I'm not sure this year.

The K10D Super-thing comes, I believe, from an article published in South Korea this spring where it was speculated that Samsung would bring out a new model above the GX-20 or an update to the GX-20. This was interpreted to that Pentax was going to do the same and here the K20D Super was born.

Now it seems like this GX-20 update is not really coming, at least not now.
Well see what happens at Photokina. Releasing a K20D Super now and then a K30D some 6 months after... hmm.... what to expect then?
A new model every year.
A Super-update after 6 months?
This would cost quite a lot of money...

As for 24x36... sensor, sensor and sensor.
It seems not finished yet...

[ogl]

Pentax is ONLY brand which has no top-camera at all.
The only camera maker (from big five) who has no fast AF in low light, 4-5 fps, 1/8000 and 1/250 (sync).
Safox VIII is stone age. Good on the paper, but average or above average in real life.

[ogl]

Let's discuss...
Low-end model will be rather successful and can undermine the selling of K200D,
K20D is selling not very good, worse than K10D.
Pentax have already cut price for K20D, but to say honest k20D can't compete with 50D and it's to compete with new D90.

Pentax also has no camera like E-3, A700, D200, D300.
It's no good situation. K20Ds with 4.5-5 fps, 1/8000 and new AF system is necessary like oxygen for us.

[thibs]

Pentax is ONLY brand which has no top-camera at all.

True

The only camera maker (from big five) who has no fast AF in low light, 4-5 fps, 1/8000 and 1/250 (sync).

That's true but if those specs do not correspond to the market Pentax is after, I do not see the point of including them just for the fun of it. Especially if the said camera do not sell because the rest of the system do not follow.

Safox VIII is stone age.

Mmm do you have a K20D? Seems not. Are you playing Ricehigh or what? Of course it could be better but you may wanna check Canon forum with loads of moaning about AF inaccuracies. It may be very fast (no question, Canon is AF speed king) but you will be the first to moan if Pentax introduces a very fast but not accurate AF system.

[thibs]

Low-end model will be rather successful and can undermine the selling of K200D,
K20D is selling not very good, worse than K10D.

Please pull numbers otherwise some may think you found them in a Canon forum

Pentax have already cut price for K20D, but to say honest k20D can't compete with 50D and it's to compete with new D90.

Go under heavy rain with your 50D or your 5Dmkii and then resume this discussion.

Pentax also has no camera like E-3, A700, D200, D300.
It's no good situation.

Sure, they should play the copycat and have 50 different cameras which will not sell at all for two reasons:

1. those would be copies, why not buy a Canon then?
2. The number of cameras will of course disperse sales numbers on the different cameras which will mean Pentax will not earn money and you or RH will moan because sales number or low.

[bnishanth]

Mmm do you have a K20D? Seems not. Are you playing Ricehigh or what? Of course it could be better but you may wanna check Canon forum with loads of moaning about AF inaccuracies. It may be very fast (no question, Canon is AF speed king) but you will be the first to moan if Pentax introduces a very fast but not accurate AF system.

Very true, anyone moaning about AF should really peek into Canon forums.

AF is about tracking, speed and accuracy, and with people complaining about Pentax AF speed, would they want to compromise on accuracy?

Cheers
Nish

[ogl]

You talk like fans...

I like Pentax lenses most of all.... Why should I buy Canon...?
I know Pentaxians who use film Pentax cameras because of AF and fps.
It's no good that Pentax had semi-pro cameras in film times and has no now...
K20D is good machine, but not even semi-pro...

Yes, I used K20D and didn't find AF faster than K200D.

[ogl]

Go under heavy rain with your 50D or your 5Dmkii and then resume this discussion.
[/LIST]

I use only fixed lenses and I don't care if camera has weather-sealing or not...
DA*200 or DA*300 are not in my wish list. Maybe some day I can see DA*30, but not now...

As for 50D or 5D mk II - it has some sealing too (not for heavy rain, of course) and L-lenses have too.

[thibs]

I use only fixed lenses and I don't care if camera has weather-sealing or not...
DA*200 or DA*300 are not in my wish list. Maybe some day I can see DA*30, but not now...

Sure, sure but it still means the 50D and 5Dmkii are pretty much NOT competing with Pentax here. I'm not even sure the D300 can.

As for 50D or 5D mk II - it has some sealing too (not for heavy rain, of course) and L-lenses have too.

Some... so they do not compete and NOT ALL L-lenses are sealed.

[RMabo]

Let's discuss...
Low-end model will be rather successful and can undermine the selling of K200D,
K20D is selling not very good, worse than K10D.
Pentax have already cut price for K20D, but to say honest k20D can't compete with 50D and it's to compete with new D90.

Pentax also has no camera like E-3, A700, D200, D300.
It's no good situation. K20Ds with 4.5-5 fps, 1/8000 and new AF system is necessary like oxygen for us.

The K20D is a great camera, made with tighter quality tolerances than the K10D, and the sensor is simply great. But it is a communication problem to explain to the customers why it is so much more expensive than the K10D. The improved sensor may not be enough to justify the price tag. Sony has proved, with the D350, that it is possible to sell a 14Mp DSLR for less.
K10D was a revolution, but the price was perhaps a bit too low.
K20D price is more normal..

Yes, the k20D competes with the D90 from the perspective of the consumers.
I don't believe in a K20D Super with up to 5 fps, 1/8000 shutter etc.
That is for the KxD.
I believe the K20D can do well against D90 if priced right.

[RMabo]

Interresting advantage with Pentax is that only Pentax has APS-C lenses with weather sealing.
The others has a few 24x36 lenses with weather sealing, the APS-C is more budget.
Pentax is also the only one with full metal APS-C lenses (from an original brand maker, yes I know Tokina has a few too... ).

[regken]

Let's discuss...
Low-end model will be rather successful and can undermine the selling of K200D,
K20D is selling not very good, worse than K10D.
Pentax have already cut price for K20D, but to say honest k20D can't compete with 50D and it's to compete with new D90.

Pentax also has no camera like E-3, A700, D200, D300.
It's no good situation. K20Ds with 4.5-5 fps, 1/8000 and new AF system is necessary like oxygen for us.

I think you are not seeing the Pentax strategy. It's not a contest between them and any other manufacturer but against the unit sales they need to reach for profitability. Take a look at the numbers in this thread. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/37238-good-bad-indifferent.html

An entry level plain Jane inexpensive body will most likely help them sell enough units to reach the 08-09 projection. The K20D and K200D may not be selling many units but enough to get them to the forecast. And that is without a rebate which most likely means they are near target not only on units sold but also profit.

Meeting projection would give them another year to bring out more models and an entry level unit will help them do that. The new factory in Vietnam should be state of the art and able to operate at maximum efficiency. Hoya had a lot of house cleaning to do and it appears from the numbers they reached projections while doing it.

It pains me to say this but I don't think we will see anything upscale until at least mid 09 if not later. They seem to be on track for survival but progress is slower than most of us would like to see.

[creampuff]

K20D is good machine, but not even semi-pro...

Yes, I used K20D and didn't find AF faster than K200D.

Regretfully I have to say your statement is complete rubbish.
As one who has owned the K100D, K100D Super, K10D and current K20D user, and who has tried out the K200D, I can confidently say the K20D's AF is the best of the bunch. There is a clear difference in AF performance between the K200D & K20D.

[ManuH]

As for 50D or 5D mk II - it has some sealing too (not for heavy rain, of course) and L-lenses have too.

What are talking about? One the new feature of the 5D Mk II is the weather sealing. "Water resistance: 10 mm rain in 3 minutes" (see page 5 of dpreview preview).