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09-18-2008, 06:01 PM   #331
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
I think you are not seeing the Pentax strategy. It's not a contest between them and any other manufacturer but against the unit sales they need to reach for profitability. Take a look at the numbers in this thread. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/37238-good-bad-indifferent.html

An entry level plain Jane inexpensive body will most likely help them sell enough units to reach the 08-09 projection. The K20D and K200D may not be selling many units but enough to get them to the forecast. And that is without a rebate which most likely means they are near target not only on units sold but also profit.

Meeting projection would give them another year to bring out more models and an entry level unit will help them do that. The new factory in Vietnam should be state of the art and able to operate at maximum efficiency. Hoya had a lot of house cleaning to do and it appears from the numbers they reached projections while doing it.

It pains me to say this but I don't think we will see anything upscale until at least mid 09 if not later. They seem to be on track for survival but progress is slower than most of us would like to see.
A survival strategy is fine by me. I just need to see Hoya's commitment in the K-mount space this Photokina, and that doesn't necessarily mean an immediate FF release. A wooden mock-ups okay with me, to be released next year.

A good showing for me would be the entry-level model (ready to ship), the 55mm and 60-250mm lens (both also ready to ship), and mock-ups of future lenses. I'm hoping for more mid-range (in cost) zooms and super telephotos for you wildlife people.

09-18-2008, 07:29 PM   #332
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Regretfully I have to say your statement is complete rubbish.
As one who has owned the K100D, K100D Super, K10D and current K20D user, and who has tried out the K200D, I can confidently say the K20D's AF is the best of the bunch. There is a clear difference in AF performance between the K200D & K20D.
make new myth...
the difference is minimal.
09-18-2008, 07:37 PM   #333
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
make new myth...
the difference is minimal.
If that is true, then it is a sad indictment against Pentax.

I know my K100D loves to hunt, at the slightest excuse.
09-18-2008, 07:43 PM   #334
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
What are talking about? One the new feature of the 5D Mk II is the weather sealing. "Water resistance: 10 mm rain in 3 minutes" (see page 5 of dpreview preview).
IT'S NOT MY POST

Go under heavy rain with your 50D or your 5Dmkii and then resume this discussion
I just tried to answer that Canon has weather-sealing too.


I understand here one more time that there are a lot of Pentaxian which live under some kind of myths or charms of Pentax.
And I'd like to see responsible pentaxians, not nervous fans...

The selling of K20D in Japan is MUCH worse than K10D.
The share of Japan market of DSLR of Pentax droped in 2 times for 1 year.
It's not a secret. Pentax was number 3 in Japan in 2007.
The situation in USA and Europe are the same.
The situation in Russia is close to 2004 year of Pentax. Do you remember 2004?
There are all lenses and cameras in shops. Nobody buy. Very-very weak sales.
High prices for all. Only K200D has good price, but higher than A200, D60, for example.

It's not very important, of course. But such marketing strategy can end in not very good way.

But it's strange for me that Pentax can't make the camera of level of PZ-1p.
But.. Pentax didn't develop the idea of Pz-1. And this camera was no good for film standart of 2000 year.
MZ is another leve too.


Last edited by ogl; 09-18-2008 at 09:15 PM.
09-18-2008, 07:47 PM   #335
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weather sealing on the 5d mk II isn't a full weather sealing. check the diagram.
09-18-2008, 07:48 PM   #336
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I'd like to see a full frame camera from Pentax, but honestly I can use my super takumars on other FF cameras, so It doesn't much matter to me who's FF camera I can afford first. I'll still use my Pentax gear, but I'd like to use some specific lenses on a FF body.
09-18-2008, 07:57 PM   #337
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QuoteOriginally posted by obheng Quote
If that is true, then it is a sad indictment against Pentax.

I know my K100D loves to hunt, at the slightest excuse.
I mean K20D and K200D. K100D is bit worse.
10-01-2008, 12:54 PM   #338
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10-01-2008, 02:54 PM   #339
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Hey, he still has a few hours left to be right.
10-01-2008, 02:58 PM   #340
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ben owes us money
10-01-2008, 03:06 PM   #341
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
ben owes us money
Alright already...Ok, Ok..But does it count that I shoved my Samsung Cell Phone in to the back of my Pentax 645? Ok, ok, I was cheating. It kind of works. What if I paint the Pentax logo on to a Canon 5D Mkll and use Super glue to make it weather proof?

Henry Paulson has promised me that he will send all of you a "Check in the Mail"...You can count on it. It is guaranteed by Wall Street's one and only Lehman Brothers.

Ben
10-01-2008, 03:10 PM   #342
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you guys should have bet something else, like signatures or avatars
10-01-2008, 04:37 PM   #343
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Alright already...Ok, Ok..But does it count that I shoved my Samsung Cell Phone in to the back of my Pentax 645? Ok, ok, I was cheating. It kind of works. What if I paint the Pentax logo on to a Canon 5D Mkll and use Super glue to make it weather proof?

Henry Paulson has promised me that he will send all of you a "Check in the Mail"...You can count on it. It is guaranteed by Wall Street's one and only Lehman Brothers.

Ben
a signed 5X7'ish work would be a cool way of payment
10-01-2008, 04:51 PM   #344
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Just curious: should we all be worried that HOYA is going to turn Pentax into an also-ran?

Here's my take on the situation, with the little facts I have: the K2000 is designed to snag the entry level DSLR shopper, so in other words those looking for a D40 or a Rebel XS. This market is exploding because people are hungry for a better camera than point & shoots, that give them the ability to upgrade and customize with lenses, but have a low entry point (a lot of these cameras start below the highest end P&S models). If they can provide a decent camera and make a profit off of high sales, they'll be able to better manage their resources. Most camera companies make their livelihood on their consumer markets, and then take the profit from that market to invest in better DSLR technology, knowing eventually that technology will siphon it's way down into lower models. There's only one thing I can see hobbling this plan, and that's the K-m's reliance on AA batteries. Frankly, I would choose a AA camera over a battery-pack design any day, but it just doesn't look good on the feature chart, which most people are looking at avidly and balancing the features with the price.

Then you've got the full frame dilemma. The interview that was done recently with a Pentax official cleared this up, and to be honest, if they say they're going to try and improve APS-C, then let them try. It's not the first time Pentax has gone the route less travelled. I have seen gorgeous professional work without a full frame sensor, so I don't see why this is such a big issue, unless you boil it down to bragging rights. I think the primary reason why no FF at the moment has already been suggested: resources. If Pentax is struggling (it sounds like it), then they're going to target profitable markets first. Say what you want about professionals, but Pentax wouldn't make it's bread and butter off FF customers. The money is in the entry-level products.

However, I don't think this means Pentax is a sinking ship. Under the umbrella of HOYA, I'd imagine they're likely to turn around their profitability. HOYA certainly wouldn't shut them down or sell them off.

Would they?
10-01-2008, 06:16 PM   #345
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QuoteOriginally posted by drewdlephone Quote
Just curious: should we all be worried that HOYA is going to turn Pentax into an also-ran?

Here's my take on the situation, with the little facts I have: the K2000 is designed to snag the entry level DSLR shopper, so in other words those looking for a D40 or a Rebel XS. This market is exploding because people are hungry for a better camera than point & shoots, that give them the ability to upgrade and customize with lenses, but have a low entry point (a lot of these cameras start below the highest end P&S models). If they can provide a decent camera and make a profit off of high sales, they'll be able to better manage their resources. Most camera companies make their livelihood on their consumer markets, and then take the profit from that market to invest in better DSLR technology, knowing eventually that technology will siphon it's way down into lower models. There's only one thing I can see hobbling this plan, and that's the K-m's reliance on AA batteries. Frankly, I would choose a AA camera over a battery-pack design any day, but it just doesn't look good on the feature chart, which most people are looking at avidly and balancing the features with the price.

Then you've got the full frame dilemma. The interview that was done recently with a Pentax official cleared this up, and to be honest, if they say they're going to try and improve APS-C, then let them try. It's not the first time Pentax has gone the route less travelled. I have seen gorgeous professional work without a full frame sensor, so I don't see why this is such a big issue, unless you boil it down to bragging rights. I think the primary reason why no FF at the moment has already been suggested: resources. If Pentax is struggling (it sounds like it), then they're going to target profitable markets first. Say what you want about professionals, but Pentax wouldn't make it's bread and butter off FF customers. The money is in the entry-level products.

However, I don't think this means Pentax is a sinking ship. Under the umbrella of HOYA, I'd imagine they're likely to turn around their profitability. HOYA certainly wouldn't shut them down or sell them off.

Would they?
Basically, your views reflect what a lot of people in this forum think as well (at least I'm with you), but there are those who still hope for an FF offering, since their art do demand it, which is understandable.

I doubt you'll see the end of these APS-C and FF debates until Pentax releases either an FF or MF DSLR, which would then shift the debate to FF versus MF.

It's basically a stalemate between the two camps, so I see no end to the debates in the near future. I just wish people could shelve the debates for now, at least until Pentax makes a definitive decision on what they're gonna do since all the arguments have been threshed out already, though the News and Rumors section would be in for slow days should that happen.

And yes, I was once doubtful about Hoya's good intentions for Pentax, but this past Photokina cleared things up. In my book, they're doing right so far. I would have done the same.
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