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07-10-2008, 10:11 AM   #76
ogl
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A lot of Pentaxist have a lot of FF lenses. Also 645 and 67 lenses.
No need any competition with Canon and Nikon. It could be camera for all us.

07-10-2008, 10:21 AM   #77
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Maybe...

QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
My crap is really glutenous..

Ben
you need more fibre in your diet...

Ewwwwwwwwww.....



Hope you're right about the cameras and lenses, but please...less details on the intimate workings of your gastro-intestinal tract.

Wendy....

Cheers,
Cameron
07-10-2008, 10:59 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
Who, exactly, would be the target market for a 25MP FF Pentax? Few hobbyists, even uber-enthusiasts are likely to buy one, because of the cost, if nothing else. Does Pentax believe that they can compete with Nikon and Canon for a share of the professional market? That would be a highly risky venture, IMO, especially without a solid range of lenses, accessories and support services in place. Perhaps, Pentax would see such a camera as a loss leader, something to garner attention in the marketplace and provide technological advances that could be incorporated into cameras farther down the ladder.
Unfortunately on this forum some will ignore any argument (whatever logical it may be) that stands between them and their FF dream. But our luck is that these fantasies are not economically feasible and rightfully so Hoya won't do such a romantic enterprise. The only camera we will for sure see is the new entry level (to fight Canon 1000D but with very different trump cards). The other resources are for sure invested in renewing some older camera systems across all future models. And the FF will come but not in a million years this September (at least not more than an announcement and maybe a mock up under glass).

And for sure most of those new systems (and perhaps the new body) will be tested by another APS-C model well before the FF will apear.

Radu
07-10-2008, 12:22 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Unfortunately on this forum some will ignore any argument (whatever logical it may be) that stands between them and their FF dream.
Actually, I agree w/ you....but probability is roughly 70% "announce only" vs. 20% "put on sale" IMHO...the 10% remainder is "no FF". It'll depend on when Samsung puts theirs up for sale...after all, they're K mount now also, so if Samsung sells it and Pentax users want a FF, they can just buy it and slap Pentax lenses on it. The overall risk/cost of licensing Samsung's design and slapping the Pentax label on it is relatively low and Samsung has fairly deep pockets because they want to smack Sony around and take 3rd place before hitting Canon/Nikon :-)

So the reasoning is *not* whether Pentax/Hoya are willing to do FF but whether *Samsung* will to one-up Sony now that Sony's FF has been announced...

Just MHO of course

07-10-2008, 12:24 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
Who, exactly, would be the target market for a 25MP FF Pentax? Few hobbyists, even uber-enthusiasts are likely to buy one, because of the cost, if nothing else. Does Pentax believe that they can compete with Nikon and Canon for a share of the professional market? That would be a highly risky venture, IMO, especially without a solid range of lenses, accessories and support services in place. Perhaps, Pentax would see such a camera as a loss leader, something to garner attention in the marketplace and provide technological advances that could be incorporated into cameras farther down the ladder.
Look. Pentax was the ipso facto camera for professionals for two decades in the 67 and 645 format. Yes, the pro's would love to be able to use Pentax glass on a pro spec camera. Pentax has a pedigree in the pro milieu and this would be a great way for them to come back to the fold so to speak.

Ben
07-10-2008, 12:29 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Look. Pentax was the ipso facto camera for professionals for two decades in the 67 and 645 format. Yes, the pro's would love to be able to use Pentax glass on a pro spec camera. Pentax has a pedigree in the pro milieu and this would be a great way for them to come back to the fold so to speak.

Ben
so why not just have pentax design affordable digi-backs for their 645 cameras???
07-10-2008, 12:43 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Actually, I agree w/ you....but probability is roughly 70% "announce only" vs. 20% "put on sale" IMHO...the 10% remainder is "no FF". It'll depend on when Samsung puts theirs up for sale...after all, they're K mount now also, so if Samsung sells it and Pentax users want a FF, they can just buy it and slap Pentax lenses on it. The overall risk/cost of licensing Samsung's design and slapping the Pentax label on it is relatively low and Samsung has fairly deep pockets because they want to smack Sony around and take 3rd place before hitting Canon/Nikon :-)

So the reasoning is *not* whether Pentax/Hoya are willing to do FF but whether *Samsung* will to one-up Sony now that Sony's FF has been announced...

Just MHO of course
Kenyee,

Let's try to weight in the facts:
Until now all Samsung cameras were 95-100% Pentax copies. I saw no proof even in latest models that Samsung engineers had done something "big" for the design. So, can we really have to believe that Samsung will start making DSLRs on their own with a FF camera? Let's get real ... they have tremendous financial and technological power but the show is still run by Pentax. Samsung must have a FF camera as soon as possible to be on par with Sony and this may accelerate the development of the sensor. But from the official "hint" april 08 to the "hard launch this year I am affraid it's not possible regardless of the resources poored in.
Besides I have 3 more facts:
1) If there was a firm path to FF in april Ben should of known since he still was associate with Pentax. Or I understood in numerous times that he had no definitive "proof";
2) What sane company will rush it's flagship model filled with untested systems only to be the laughing stock of the rest afterwards. Look at Sony: they announced plans in 30th of jannuary, first spoting of A900 beta models were in late june, they will announce it at Photokina and deliver in the following months;
3) Again what sane company will fill a K20D body with the same AF, shutter, processor, mettering system and a FF sensor and, again, become a laughing stock for a 1,5 fps camera with many unprofessional features?

I don't say it's not comming, it most surely will. But not now and maybe not in an year from now. And I still believe in the mean time Pentax needs a APS-C "pro model" for testing new electronics and share many parts with the FF to reduce costs, and a vastly improved lens line up. And some new flashes if we're at it.

Radu
07-10-2008, 01:32 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
so why not just have pentax design affordable digi-backs for their 645 cameras???
That is a thought I have wondered about numerous times. I also wondered the same about a digital back for the Mamiya RB series.

07-10-2008, 01:40 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
why must a pro-body be big enough to use as a coffee table?
- Big sensor, big body
- You can smash people with it really good*
- You can quit at the gym
- It's a great compensation for the lenght of some body parts
- To use as a coffee table:

- Or for some fine wine


*only if huge 2.8 tele is fitted
07-10-2008, 02:00 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Look at Sony: they announced plans in 30th of jannuary, first spoting of A900 beta models were in late june, they will announce it at Photokina and deliver in the following months;
Actually, I recall seeing a mockup of it over a year ago.
07-10-2008, 02:14 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jodokast96 Quote
Actually, I recall seeing a mockup of it over a year ago.
Jodokast96,

I can't recall exactly when the rumour started but it became official in late january:Sony announces development of 35mm CMOS sensor: Digital Photography Review

Radu
07-10-2008, 02:18 PM   #87
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Yeah, when I first heard about it, it was semi-official as it was Sony displaying the mockup. They were basically waiting on the sensor, so there were no real specs other than FF.
07-10-2008, 02:18 PM   #88
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Cool shots Erasmo -- 101 uses for a spare Canon?
07-10-2008, 02:47 PM   #89
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Hilarious Erasmo! Find serious debate, insert levity. Great pics and style. Re FF, "I have no opinion".
07-10-2008, 03:08 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
1) If there was a firm path to FF in april Ben should of known since he still was associate with Pentax. Or I understood in numerous times that he had no definitive "proof";
AFAIK, Ben's NDA is still in effect...they usually last a few years or until a product is announced, so all he can do is hint.
As for the rest, yep, I'd agree...ramming a FF sensor in the K10D/K20D's body would be dumb. I suspect they didn't do that and I also suspect Samsung has their own SLR engineers by now; Pentax has already said they're working on it (I suspect for a year or maybe 1.5 yrs already since I'm sure Samsung told them about the upcoming FF sensor at least 6 months before they announced it); these are guesses of timelines from being in the engineering (hardware/chipdesign) industry. The bottom line is we're all guessing except maybe Ben. We'll find out in Sept though. Personally, I'd be happy w/ a K20Ds with better predictive AF, an IR assist lamp, and no weird banding or hotpixels, but a FF would give me something to save for....I'm tired of landscape photos w/ trees that are 3 pixels tall...6pixels would be nicer
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