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06-22-2016, 01:36 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
But will they?

Lenses for MF will still be very expensive, so it will still be a small segment. Probably too small for most Japanese camera manufacturers, as it will not generate as much profit as other more mainstream segments. FI Sony can probably sell 50+ A7 series cameras for every MF mirrorless camera.

For Pentax and other MF manufacturers it made more sense as they are smaller companies and they already had an existing MF user base when they started to manufacture digital MF.
At least Sony manufacturing MF sensors and Fuji is making lenses for Hasselblad(Not for MF mirrorless camera) and made their own MF before. Samsung was planning MF camera few years ago but they are gone now. Most cameras from Japanese companies tend to be much cheaper than Europe companies. It is possible to make MF mirrorless in cheap price. I know that MF lenses need to be high quality so can't guarantee the price. However, they can make MF mirrorless cameras cheaper than Hasselblad, Phase one, and Leica. Look how cheap Pentax 645Z it is. Hasselblad mirrorless camera is still expansive compare to 645Z even the components size is very differ.

06-22-2016, 02:23 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
At least Sony manufacturing MF sensors and Fuji is making lenses for Hasselblad(Not for MF mirrorless camera) and made their own MF before.
Sony manufacture MF sensors because they can sell them with lots of profit without having to invest a lot in R&D. They basically re-use sensor tech developed for smaller sensors. Sony that manufacture sensors is not the same company as Sony that manufacture cameras, so it might not be much benefit for Sony to manufacture MF cameras.
Manufacturing of mirrorless MF cameras will require lots of investments in R&D and manufacturing on lenses, even more for companies that don't have any existing MF lenses that they can use on the new platform.

For Pentax it was a no-brainer, as they already manufactured MF lenses, had an existing user base of MF cameras, and they could re-use camera tech developed for APS-C when they designed 645D. So it did not take very much investment in R&D for Pentax to release a digital MF system.

QuoteQuote:
Samsung was planning MF camera few years ago but they are gone now. Most cameras from Japanese companies tend to be much cheaper than Europe companies. It is possible to make MF mirrorless in cheap price. I know that MF lenses need to be high quality so can't guarantee the price. However, they can make MF mirrorless cameras cheaper than Hasselblad, Phase one, and Leica. Look how cheap Pentax 645Z it is. Hasselblad mirrorless camera is still expansive compare to 645Z even the components size is very differ.
Japanese companies sell cheaper products because they focus on high volume sales. The European companies you mention focus on high margin, low volume sales.
Japanese car manufactures like Mazda or Honda could sell cheaper super sport cars than European car manufacturers like Pagani or Koenigsegg, but the Japanese manufacturers don't, because it's not part of their business model.
06-22-2016, 02:36 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
Sony manufacture MF sensors because they can sell them with lots of profit without having to invest a lot in R&D. They basically re-use sensor tech developed for smaller sensors. Sony that manufacture sensors is not the same company as Sony that manufacture cameras, so it might not be much benefit for Sony to manufacture MF cameras.
Manufacturing of mirrorless MF cameras will require lots of investments in R&D and manufacturing on lenses, even more for companies that don't have any existing MF lenses that they can use on the new platform.

For Pentax it was a no-brainer, as they already manufactured MF lenses, had an existing user base of MF cameras, and they could re-use camera tech developed for APS-C when they designed 645D. So it did not take very much investment in R&D for Pentax to release a digital MF system.

Japanese companies sell cheaper products because they focus on high volume sales. The European companies you mention focus on high margin, low volume sales.
Japanese car manufactures like Mazda or Honda could sell cheaper super sport cars than European car manufacturers like Pagani or Koenigsegg, but the Japanese manufacturers don't, because it's not part of their business model.
But still, both Sony and Fuji have MF mirrorless camera plans already. Fuji is testing MF camera secretly and Sony was collaborating with Mamiya(But they are one with Phase one). It just a matter time.
06-22-2016, 03:01 PM   #94
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Sure, but if they release MF cameras I doubt they will be cheaper than Pentax 645Z.
Pentax can even sell K1 as cheap as Sony A7 II, or almost at half the price of Sony A7r II.
And Fuji sells X Pro 2 (APS-C mirrorless) at same price as K1.


Last edited by Fogel70; 06-22-2016 at 03:14 PM.
06-22-2016, 03:28 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
Sure, but if they release MF cameras I doubt they will be cheaper than Pentax 645Z.
Pentax can even sell K1 as cheap as Sony A7 II, or almost at half the price of Sony A7r II.
And Fuji sells X Pro 2 (APS-C mirrorless) at same price as K1.
For Fuji, they don't care about the camera system that much. Because of that, they charge more money on each lenses and cameras. They still using same sensors.

Btw only USA sell the cheapest price for K-1. Other countries sold K-1 around $3000.
06-22-2016, 03:38 PM   #96
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Ehm 1999 euro including taxes
06-22-2016, 04:09 PM   #97
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Ehm less than 1950 euro around here
06-23-2016, 02:27 AM   #98
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Oh we weren't talking msrp? Then 1875

06-23-2016, 02:51 AM   #99
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I'm converting the local price from Romanian lei to euro, without applying any discount.
06-23-2016, 06:29 AM   #100
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The only great puropose for such a collaboration would be to counter Hasselblad on the mirorless medium format.
06-23-2016, 06:49 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by phat_bog Quote
counter Hasselblad on the mirorless medium format
But Fuji allegedly is already collaborating with Hasselblad, to the extent of making the new X1D camera and lenses.
06-23-2016, 07:03 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
But Fuji allegedly is already collaborating with Hasselblad, to the extent of making the new X1D camera and lenses.
Hasselblad denies it. it is an in house camera, Lenses are made by Nittő Kogaku in Japan.
06-23-2016, 07:04 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
But Fuji allegedly is already collaborating with Hasselblad, to the extent of making the new X1D camera and lenses.

Fuji was not involved in mirrorless Hasselblad development according to Hasselbald CEO. Hasselblad actually has the classic H system made by Fuji (not so true anymore for the body now I think), and the HC / HCD lenses are made by Fuji. But not the new X1D system.

Last edited by SylvainB; 06-23-2016 at 07:05 AM. Reason: correction of typo
06-23-2016, 10:08 AM   #104
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Hasselblad X1D vs Sony A7r II vs Canon 5DS vs Pentax 645D: Size Comparison

This is how small Hasselblad X1D is.

It would be awesome and great if Pentax/Ricoh develop mirrorless version of FF and MF cameras.
06-23-2016, 10:44 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Hasselblad denies it. it is an in house camera, Lenses are made by Nittő Kogaku in Japan.
Aha. My mistake.
So that makes Fuji free for other partners then, I guess.
Assuming Fuji (or Hasselblad) are not bound by any 'no-compete' clauses in any existing commercial agreements of theirs.
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