[Zygonyx]

Some of us here need to have a better compass in the eye... and notions of marketing...

"Cheap" ml big sensor MFs are the main threat to Pentax's 645 "old and cumbersome" system.

[Mistral75]

Obviously, it's got a 40x53,4mm C-Mos sensor.
(...).

Look at the picture with the inside sensor. If this sensor is 33mm eight, that means the ML grip is less than 9cm in eight, or like the one of a Sony A6000 : impossible.
+
Which manufacturer would nowadays limit a brand new mount and lenses to such 33x44 cropped sensor ?

(...)

Zygonyx, I see your point but I am afraid you are wrong.

Indeed, HCD lenses, as per Hasselblad naming conventions, are 'crop' lenses limited to 36x48 sensors and not suitable for 'full 645 frame' sensors. Full 645 frame lenses for H-series cameras are named HC.

Since the two XD1 lenses shown at launch are named XCD (X corresponding to the short-flanged X-series as opposed to the 'regular' H-series), I presume they are 'crop' lenses too.



Besides, the 45mm and 90mm focal lenses are most meaningful (in the 'corresponding to some classical field of view' sense) with a 33x33mm crop, where the first one is a standard lens (focal length ≈ diagonal) and the second one a portrait lens (same field of view as 85mm on 24x36 and 150mm on traditional 6x6).

[ogl]

Some of us here need to have a better compass in the eye... and notions of marketing...

"Cheap" ml big sensor MFs are the main threat to Pentax's 645 "old and cumbersome" system.

They stay with 44*33 mm sensor in this camera to make new camera and lenses more compact.

[D1N0]

Or they could go for 40x40 square, but that would be pretty useless for landscapers and a waste of sensor space

[LensBeginner]

Hasselblad X1D Leaked: World's First Medium Format Mirrorless Camera

Well the first mirrorless medium format in the world. $2000 more than Pentax 645Z.

Ok, markets for the two products seem not to overlap (too much)

[D1N0]

Announced: photorumors.com/2016/06/22/hasselblad-x1d-medium-format-mirrorless-camera-officially-announced/

[redrockcoulee]

Or they could go for 40x40 square, but that would be pretty useless for landscapers and a waste of sensor space

Lots of people shoot square format landscapes. I am one of them but I am referring to good photographers. And lots of landscape shots done on a 4X5 ratio as well as a panoramic one.

[Zygonyx]

Zygonyx, I see your point but I am afraid you are wrong.

Indeed, HCD lenses, as per Hasselblad naming conventions, are 'crop' lenses limited to 36x48 sensors and not suitable for 'full 645 frame' sensors. Full 645 frame lenses for H-series cameras are named HC.

Since the two XD1 lenses shown at launch are named XCD (X corresponding to the short-flanged X-series as opposed to the 'regular' H-series), I presume they are 'crop' lenses too.



Besides, the 45mm and 90mm focal lenses are most meaningful (in the 'corresponding to some classical field of view' sense) with a 33x33mm crop, where the first one is a standard lens (focal length ≈ diagonal) and the second one a portrait lens (same field of view as 85mm on 24x36 and 150mm on traditional 6x6).

OK, my bad.
But i don't get the Hassy medium term strategy launching this very vulgar system.
They probably only wanted to spark their label in the digital photog history...

I guess other Japanese companies can make MF mirrorless in much cheaper price than Pentax 645Z.

[Zygonyx]

For sure.
Things can still move "dangerously" for 645 digital.

[Fogel70]

I guess other Japanese companies can make MF mirrorless in much cheaper price than Pentax 645Z.

But will they?

Lenses for MF will still be very expensive, so it will still be a small segment. Probably too small for most Japanese camera manufacturers, as it will not generate as much profit as other more mainstream segments. FI Sony can probably sell 50+ A7 series cameras for every MF mirrorless camera.

For Pentax and other MF manufacturers it made more sense as they are smaller companies and they already had an existing MF user base when they started to manufacture digital MF.

[Kunzite]

Yet the game changer was the Pentax 645 Digital. The game changed, on a market too small to be noticeable.

But will they?

Lenses for MF will still be very expensive, so it will still be a small segment. Probably too small for most Japanese camera manufacturers, as it will not generate as much profit as other more mainstream segments. FI Sony can probably sell 50+ A7 series cameras for every MF mirrorless camera.

For Pentax and other MF manufacturers it made more sense as they are smaller companies and they already had an existing MF user base when they started to manufacture digital MF.

At least Sony manufacturing MF sensors and Fuji is making lenses for Hasselblad(Not for MF mirrorless camera) and made their own MF before. Samsung was planning MF camera few years ago but they are gone now. Most cameras from Japanese companies tend to be much cheaper than Europe companies. It is possible to make MF mirrorless in cheap price. I know that MF lenses need to be high quality so can't guarantee the price. However, they can make MF mirrorless cameras cheaper than Hasselblad, Phase one, and Leica. Look how cheap Pentax 645Z it is. Hasselblad mirrorless camera is still expansive compare to 645Z even the components size is very differ.

[Fogel70]

At least Sony manufacturing MF sensors and Fuji is making lenses for Hasselblad(Not for MF mirrorless camera) and made their own MF before.

Sony manufacture MF sensors because they can sell them with lots of profit without having to invest a lot in R&D. They basically re-use sensor tech developed for smaller sensors. Sony that manufacture sensors is not the same company as Sony that manufacture cameras, so it might not be much benefit for Sony to manufacture MF cameras.
Manufacturing of mirrorless MF cameras will require lots of investments in R&D and manufacturing on lenses, even more for companies that don't have any existing MF lenses that they can use on the new platform.

For Pentax it was a no-brainer, as they already manufactured MF lenses, had an existing user base of MF cameras, and they could re-use camera tech developed for APS-C when they designed 645D. So it did not take very much investment in R&D for Pentax to release a digital MF system.

Samsung was planning MF camera few years ago but they are gone now. Most cameras from Japanese companies tend to be much cheaper than Europe companies. It is possible to make MF mirrorless in cheap price. I know that MF lenses need to be high quality so can't guarantee the price. However, they can make MF mirrorless cameras cheaper than Hasselblad, Phase one, and Leica. Look how cheap Pentax 645Z it is. Hasselblad mirrorless camera is still expansive compare to 645Z even the components size is very differ.

Japanese companies sell cheaper products because they focus on high volume sales. The European companies you mention focus on high margin, low volume sales.
Japanese car manufactures like Mazda or Honda could sell cheaper super sport cars than European car manufacturers like Pagani or Koenigsegg, but the Japanese manufacturers don't, because it's not part of their business model.

Sony manufacture MF sensors because they can sell them with lots of profit without having to invest a lot in R&D. They basically re-use sensor tech developed for smaller sensors. Sony that manufacture sensors is not the same company as Sony that manufacture cameras, so it might not be much benefit for Sony to manufacture MF cameras.
Manufacturing of mirrorless MF cameras will require lots of investments in R&D and manufacturing on lenses, even more for companies that don't have any existing MF lenses that they can use on the new platform.

For Pentax it was a no-brainer, as they already manufactured MF lenses, had an existing user base of MF cameras, and they could re-use camera tech developed for APS-C when they designed 645D. So it did not take very much investment in R&D for Pentax to release a digital MF system.

Japanese companies sell cheaper products because they focus on high volume sales. The European companies you mention focus on high margin, low volume sales.
Japanese car manufactures like Mazda or Honda could sell cheaper super sport cars than European car manufacturers like Pagani or Koenigsegg, but the Japanese manufacturers don't, because it's not part of their business model.

But still, both Sony and Fuji have MF mirrorless camera plans already. Fuji is testing MF camera secretly and Sony was collaborating with Mamiya(But they are one with Phase one). It just a matter time.