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05-13-2016, 12:40 PM   #1
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Metz 58 AF2 Firmware 4.1

This flash works very well on my K-3 but I just tried it on the K-1 and I'm not able to get it to flash in sync with the shutter. It only flashes on HSS not in the normal P TTL I have sent a note to Metz to see if they will have a firmware upgrade soon. Has anyone else tried this flash on the K-1?

05-13-2016, 01:32 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by JENSEN7474 Quote
This flash works very well on my K-3 but I just tried it on the K-1 and I'm not able to get it to flash in sync with the shutter. It only flashes on HSS not in the normal P TTL I have sent a note to Metz to see if they will have a firmware upgrade soon. Has anyone else tried this flash on the K-1?

I have the same flash. It works in M Mode but not PTTL. I'm going to try it later today with my Cactus V-60 and see what that does.

---------- Post added 05-13-16 at 01:50 PM ----------

I had to put a V6 in Rx Mode on the hotshoe and the Metz on top of that. I then have to use another V6 and set it to Tx. I'm not able to trigger the the flash with the one in my hand, however I can get it to flash by pushing the shutter button. Not the best setup, but works in a pinch. I have 2 Metz's 50 AF-1 and a Cactus RF60 to test on it as well.
05-13-2016, 03:39 PM - 2 Likes   #3
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I have put up a few posts V-A-V Metz flash problems with the K1 on the thread about K1 problems (info for Ricoh - no complaining allowed, just problems, glitches) With my Metz 52, there are two ways to make it work with pTTL: 1) as you found, set to HSS; 2) go into the Metz menu, zoom options, and set "extended zoom." The latter causes the Metz reflector to go one FL "step" wider than the lens is set. In the "extended zoom" setting, everything seems to work correctly, pTTL exposure and coordinate zooming of lens and flash reflector. I suspect there is some miscommunication between camera & flash on focal length. The camera is looking for a FF focal length, the flash is communicating an APS-C focal length, so the camera refuses to use the flash. When set to "extended zoom" the flash is communicating a wider FL that is appropriate to the FF lens FL. Maybe.

FOLLOWUP: SUSPICIONS CONFIRMED. The problem with Metz strobes (and probably other after-market strobes) on a K1 has to do with focal-length communication. I have Metz 24, 44, and 52 strobes. In pTTL and FF mode on the camera, none of them work. BUT, if I set the camera to APS-C format, all three strobes work correctly. SO, if you have a flash that allows an "extended zoom" setting (= flash sets the reflector one FF wider than it thinks is correct, but which actually IS the correct setting for the FL of the lens on a FF camera), use that and the flash will function correctly. Otherwise the flash is communicating an APS-C focal length which the K1 identifies as wrong for the FF focal length that the camera is using. For a strobe without an "extended flash" setting, unless Metz issues a firmware update, the unit will not work on a K1.

Last edited by WPRESTO; 05-13-2016 at 04:13 PM.
05-13-2016, 05:54 PM   #4
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I usually shoot off camera most of the time. It works with a V6 on the hot-shoe, and the Metz 58 AF2 on another V6. I don't think Metz is going to put out a firmware update. I don't even see where they are even selling it anymore. But, I could be wrong.

05-13-2016, 07:58 PM   #5
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Thanks, Wpresto. Your work around worked perfect. I did get a email back from the US distributer saying that they would ask Metz about a firmware update.
05-14-2016, 02:32 AM   #6
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Brilliant mind!

QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
I have put up a few posts V-A-V Metz flash problems with the K1 on the thread about K1 problems (info for Ricoh - no complaining allowed, just problems, glitches) With my Metz 52, there are two ways to make it work with pTTL: 1) as you found, set to HSS; 2) go into the Metz menu, zoom options, and set "extended zoom." The latter causes the Metz reflector to go one FL "step" wider than the lens is set. In the "extended zoom" setting, everything seems to work correctly, pTTL exposure and coordinate zooming of lens and flash reflector. I suspect there is some miscommunication between camera & flash on focal length. The camera is looking for a FF focal length, the flash is communicating an APS-C focal length, so the camera refuses to use the flash. When set to "extended zoom" the flash is communicating a wider FL that is appropriate to the FF lens FL. Maybe.

FOLLOWUP: SUSPICIONS CONFIRMED. The problem with Metz strobes (and probably other after-market strobes) on a K1 has to do with focal-length communication. I have Metz 24, 44, and 52 strobes. In pTTL and FF mode on the camera, none of them work. BUT, if I set the camera to APS-C format, all three strobes work correctly. SO, if you have a flash that allows an "extended zoom" setting (= flash sets the reflector one FF wider than it thinks is correct, but which actually IS the correct setting for the FL of the lens on a FF camera), use that and the flash will function correctly. Otherwise the flash is communicating an APS-C focal length which the K1 identifies as wrong for the FF focal length that the camera is using. For a strobe without an "extended flash" setting, unless Metz issues a firmware update, the unit will not work on a K1.
05-14-2016, 04:51 AM   #7
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The solution seems to indicate that Pentax has changed something in the communication protocol in respect to in-camera cropping to APS-C.

I say this because my old Metz 40MZ and 32MZ flashes with SCA3701/02 adapters set the motorzoom correctly with the K200D (APS-C) and with the MZ5n (FF). The zoom is set automatically not to the real (lens property), but to the virtual focal length when used on an APS-C body. This led me to the conclusion the body does not communicate the focal length of the lens, but the resulting field of view. It seems, the wider range of possibilities with the K-1 (DA lenses can be used as they are or in crop mode) has forced them to modify the protocol.
05-16-2016, 10:52 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
FOLLOWUP: SUSPICIONS CONFIRMED. .
Thanks for providing hope that my Metz 58 AF-1 will someday function in P-TTL mode with K-1, now it functions only in A mode. I use D FA 100 macro WR for testing.

I can confirm that you clearly have a clue here. After your post I tested the trick and 58 AF-1 (+/- ext zoom) and K-1 set to APS-C mode work flawlessly in P-TTL mode! That was the good news. The bad news; K-1 in FF mode & 58 AF-1 in extended zoom mode do not function in P-TTL mode. I have the latest firmware installed. There is either no flash at all or flash at full power.

Still, the flash in A mode yields satisfactory results and all Metz finesses are functional, like secondary flash and exposure compensation.

05-19-2016, 04:39 PM   #9
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I received this from Manfrotto, the US service provider for Metz. I also sent the work-a-round solution by WPRESTO when I received this response. Lets hope for the best.

Stephen,

We have heard from Metz in Germany. They have informed us that they are investigating the issue and will have to have their engineering department determine what needs to be done. This will take some time and they will update us once they have determined if a firmware update can be developed to correct for this compatibility issue.


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05-19-2016, 05:12 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by JENSEN7474 Quote
I received this from Manfrotto, the US service provider for Metz. I also sent the work-a-round solution by WPRESTO when I received this response. Lets hope for the best.

Stephen,

We have heard from Metz in Germany. They have informed us that they are investigating the issue and will have to have their engineering department determine what needs to be done. This will take some time and they will update us once they have determined if a firmware update can be developed to correct for this compatibility issue.


Manfrotto Service @ C.R.I.S.
250 N 54th Street
Chandler, AZ 85226
Phone - 480-940-1103
Fax 480-940-1329

Thank you sir for helping to get the ball rolling.
05-19-2016, 06:55 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
SO, if you have a flash that allows an "extended zoom" setting (= flash sets the reflector one FF wider than it thinks is correct, but which actually IS the correct setting for the FL of the lens on a FF camera), use that and the flash will function correctly.
Excellent tip. Thank you for figuring this out.

Can confirm K-1 + P-TTL works correctly with my Metz 52-AF1 (firmware v1.3).
52-AF1 - Menu > Option > Zoom Mode > Extended.

And 1/200 sec flash sync appears to work correctly, as does HSS.
05-22-2016, 12:35 AM - 1 Like   #12
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Has someone tried to use the "Zoom Size" option on a Metz flash?

It is available on the Metz 58 AF-2 and represents the correct way of telling the flash that the camera uses the full frame and hence no focal length conversion ought to take place.

The "Extended Zoom" function has a different purpose.

Last edited by Class A; 07-15-2016 at 08:32 PM.
05-22-2016, 02:20 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
It is available on the Metz 58 AF-2 and represent the correct way of telling the flash that the camera uses the full frame and hence no focal length conversion ought to take place.
You are right of course. I should have dipped into the 52 AF-1 flash manual.

'Menu > Option > Zoom Size > Off' works fine in terms of exposure and P-TTL/HSS, and reports the correct lens position on the back of the flash when the lens is zoomed too. Direct flash, bounce flash etc is all fine.

'Zoom Size > Off' and 'Zoom Mode > Extended' also work happily work together, FWIW.
05-22-2016, 05:34 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Has someone tried to use the "Zoom Size" option on a Metz flash?
It is available on the Metz 58 AF-2 and represent the correct way of telling the flash that the camera uses the full frame and hence no focal length conversion ought to take place.
The "Extended Zoom" function has a different purpose.
unfortunately it isn't selectable on my 58 AF-2 running firmware 4.1
Bit weird as the manual also has that option mentioned.
05-22-2016, 06:34 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Franc Quote
unfortunately it isn't selectable on my 58 AF-2 running firmware 4.1
The option only becomes available if the the flash has detected a respective camera.

The flash needs to be on the camera, the camera's metering needs to be active and the flash should be in "P-TTL HSS" mode (or at least "P-TTL" mode?). Then you should be able to see the "Zoom Size" menu option on the flash.
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