Q-s1 discontinued. The end of Q?

Simen1 · 05-16-2016, 05:01 PM

Or the K-02 is right around the corner.

reh321 · 05-16-2016, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by geomez

Or following Occam's Razor, kenspo would simply be stating that the Q line is still being developed and supported.

I guess I'd better start saving my money, since I'm on record here saying I'd buy a new "Q" within six months if it has an EVF, and frankly there's no point to releasing another "Q" without an EVF, because then it is a guaranteed loser against modern cell phones.

surfar · 05-16-2016, 05:22 PM

K-02 will be a big surprise.

The WM-Q2 and K1 were announced pretty well in tandem, it'd provide a problem though.Which one to buy first!

reh321 · 05-16-2016, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by surfar

K-02 will be a big surprise.

The WM-Q2 and K1 were announced pretty well in tandem, it'd provide a problem though.Which one to buy first!

If a Q-S2 and a K-02, each having an EVF, were announced on the same day, and then later released on the same day, I would buy the Q-S2 first, because

(1) I've had my Q-7 for six months longer than I've had my K-30

(2) from my viewpoint, a "Q" with an EVF would be a bigger improvement over my Q-7 than any K-02 would be over my K-30

surfar · 05-16-2016, 05:44 PM

Well, i'll have to wait for both as I still haven't got my WM-Q2.The Panasonic TZ80 and the K1 have delayed the WM-Q2!

**monochrome** · 05-16-2016, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

The Q simply did not sell. Dedicated camera with small sensors (sub-1") are unable compete with cameras in phones.

What are the actual sales figures for Q?

Curious minds want to know.

reh321 · 05-16-2016, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

Dedicated camera with small sensors (sub-1") are unable compete with cameras in phones.

No, super zoom cameras, such as the Canon SX-50 and Nikon P900 {each with a 1/2.3" sensor} have done well.
If the Q is going to compete, it needs to enter a category of small sensor cameras that does not include cell phones.
At a minimum, it needs an EVF to differentiate itself from cell phones; I believe it also needs a super zoom lens, allowing it to better go for sales in the wildlife photo area, an area which the SX-50 and P900 have demonstrated is rich in customers

surfar · 05-16-2016, 06:53 PM

A wide prime and a 45-150mm f4, is on my wish list

EVF?....overated, imo.....the $5 loupes are good enough for when the suns interfering.

Both those superzooms are big and heavy, if ricoh can come up with a 45/150ish.....just longer physically than the 06, they will win market share from the SZs

reh321 · 05-16-2016, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by surfar

EVF?....overated, imo.....the $5 loupes are good enough for when the suns interfering.

My issue is that my Hoodman doubles the physical size of my Q-7, so it is overated IMHO. Obviously YMMV

Originally posted by surfar

Both those superzooms are big and heavy, if ricoh can come up with a 45/150ish.....just longer physically than the 06, they will win market share from the SZs

The lens integrated into an SX-50 appears to be less than 5" long. My expectation is that a 50-300 designed for the Q's sensor should also be relatively small, and that is the kind of package that could compete very well with the SX-50 and P900. Since each of those cameras has a built-in EVF, I believe the Q-S2 would need that also in order to compete {my observation is that, regardless of what we might do to finesse the situation, cameras without EVF simply do not sell today}

**geomez** · 05-16-2016, 08:21 PM

I think the Q will continue and I think Ricoh will continue with incremental upgrades, I think we'll continue buying them, I think the stores will overlook them, and the general public will continue ignoring them. Do I want it to be different? Yes. But year after year it's the same story with the Q. The things we keep wishing for have been around if not popular since before the Q even came out, and we keep not getting them. We aren't even getting new lenses.

thibs · 05-16-2016, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by D1N0

Kenspo just said Ricoh will come with a mirrorless full frame system for Pentax on Photokina. (Photorumors.com are you reading this?)

Originally posted by kenspo

Haha, i did not

ROTFL This is so much reality

**Aristophanes** · 05-16-2016, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

What are the actual sales figures for Q?

Curious minds want to know.

All I can see is that the sales for fixed lens cameras are sill on a considerable decline path YOY:

http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-201603_e.pdf

No matter what returns the Q had for Pentax it is a declining user base worldwide. YOY for 2016 is projected to be 12.5% lower than 2015 for all non-phone digital cameras, with the compact segment taking the brunt of it. And 2015 was 18% down from 2014.

The Japanese rankings have been so dismal the Q hasn't even shown up on them recently.

The original concept was that a premium design, small sensor compact with the cachet of interchangeable lenses had a niche.

Not really. None of the smaller sensor models has done particularly well. The Olympus PEN does OK but I haven't seen a ranking for the Q for (literally) years. The EOS M and Nikon's system haven't done all that well either.

Remember the other concept was that these would be metal, custom colour bling cameras as well, with a whole order online and have it delivered to your dealer in multi-colour options.

It was innovative, but very little market appetite. CIPA and BCN talk up the "step up" camera market compared to smartphones but so far consumers either buy very high-end (Sony RX, Ricoh GR, the new Fuji) or a larger sensor DSLR or mirrorless. People "step up" big, no compact sensor "small".

JPT · 05-16-2016, 10:35 PM - **1 Like**

The Q's fortunes in Japan have been mostly depending on the price of the body and whether Ricoh was advertising. The original one didn't sell because it was priced too high to be an impulse purchase. The Q10 and Q7 did well because of the lower price and the TV ad campaign. The last Q-S1 has not been advertised on TV, and in fairness it isn't a very compelling camera over the Q7.

I don't think it makes a lot of sense to weigh up the Q against mobile phones. People buy the Q because they find the idea of a really small camera appealing, either as photo enthusiasts out just regular people who think it's cute and fun. The Q marketing in Japan is all focused on the casual, fun aspect. The Q isn't a camera you buy with you head; it's a camera you buy with your heart.

Q cameras are quite a common sight in Japan. I don't doubt that Ricoh could sell a successor camera of they wanted to invest in the development and marketing. The question is whether they want to be in that line of business or not. Personally, I think it's good for brand visibility.

hectorse · 05-16-2016, 10:49 PM

I wish we could get a Q system camera with GOOD connectivity:

1. Sensor Size not important
2. 14MPs
3. Internal 16GB memory + SD card slot
4. WiFi, NFC, gps and Bluetooth
5. Facebook, instagram, youtube and flickr integration

Exchangeable lenses are a big plus for this system, but it needs to be as convenient to use as a phone.

**geomez** · 05-17-2016, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by hectorse

I wish we could get a Q system camera with GOOD connectivity:

1. Sensor Size not important
2. 14MPs
3. Internal 16GB memory + SD card slot
4. WiFi, NFC, gps and Bluetooth
5. Facebook, instagram, youtube and flickr integration

Exchangeable lenses are a big plus for this system, but it needs to be as convenient to use as a phone.

It already is as convenient as a phone if you want to conveniently take pictures. A camera will never be as good as a phone at internet and communication, and for the foreseeable future, a phone will never be as proficient at taking pictures as a good camera. Your list of wants sounds like you want a smartphone. Sensor size matters to most people that want cameras.

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05-16-2016, 05:01 PM	#76
Simen1 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tromsø, Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 1,031	Or the K-02 is right around the corner.

05-16-2016, 05:19 PM	#77
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by geomez Or following Occam's Razor, kenspo would simply be stating that the Q line is still being developed and supported. I guess I'd better start saving my money, since I'm on record here saying I'd buy a new "Q" within six months if it has an EVF, and frankly there's no point to releasing another "Q" without an EVF, because then it is a guaranteed loser against modern cell phones.

05-16-2016, 05:22 PM	#78
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,142	K-02 will be a big surprise. The WM-Q2 and K1 were announced pretty well in tandem, it'd provide a problem though.Which one to buy first!

05-16-2016, 05:30 PM	#79
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by surfar K-02 will be a big surprise. The WM-Q2 and K1 were announced pretty well in tandem, it'd provide a problem though.Which one to buy first! If a Q-S2 and a K-02, each having an EVF, were announced on the same day, and then later released on the same day, I would buy the Q-S2 first, because (1) I've had my Q-7 for six months longer than I've had my K-30 (2) from my viewpoint, a "Q" with an EVF would be a bigger improvement over my Q-7 than any K-02 would be over my K-30

05-16-2016, 05:44 PM	#80
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,142	Well, i'll have to wait for both as I still haven't got my WM-Q2.The Panasonic TZ80 and the K1 have delayed the WM-Q2!

05-16-2016, 05:46 PM	#81
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Aristophanes The Q simply did not sell. Dedicated camera with small sensors (sub-1") are unable compete with cameras in phones. What are the actual sales figures for Q? Curious minds want to know.

05-16-2016, 06:15 PM	#82
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by Aristophanes Dedicated camera with small sensors (sub-1") are unable compete with cameras in phones. No, super zoom cameras, such as the Canon SX-50 and Nikon P900 {each with a 1/2.3" sensor} have done well. If the Q is going to compete, it needs to enter a category of small sensor cameras that does not include cell phones. At a minimum, it needs an EVF to differentiate itself from cell phones; I believe it also needs a super zoom lens, allowing it to better go for sales in the wildlife photo area, an area which the SX-50 and P900 have demonstrated is rich in customers

05-16-2016, 06:53 PM	#83
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,142	A wide prime and a 45-150mm f4, is on my wish list EVF?....overated, imo.....the $5 loupes are good enough for when the suns interfering. Both those superzooms are big and heavy, if ricoh can come up with a 45/150ish.....just longer physically than the 06, they will win market share from the SZs

05-16-2016, 07:23 PM	#84
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by surfar EVF?....overated, imo.....the $5 loupes are good enough for when the suns interfering. My issue is that my Hoodman doubles the physical size of my Q-7, so it is overated IMHO. Obviously YMMV Originally posted by surfar Both those superzooms are big and heavy, if ricoh can come up with a 45/150ish.....just longer physically than the 06, they will win market share from the SZs The lens integrated into an SX-50 appears to be less than 5" long. My expectation is that a 50-300 designed for the Q's sensor should also be relatively small, and that is the kind of package that could compete very well with the SX-50 and P900. Since each of those cameras has a built-in EVF, I believe the Q-S2 would need that also in order to compete {my observation is that, regardless of what we might do to finesse the situation, cameras without EVF simply do not sell today}

05-16-2016, 08:21 PM	#85
geomez Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Roanoke, Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,760	I think the Q will continue and I think Ricoh will continue with incremental upgrades, I think we'll continue buying them, I think the stores will overlook them, and the general public will continue ignoring them. Do I want it to be different? Yes. But year after year it's the same story with the Q. The things we keep wishing for have been around if not popular since before the Q even came out, and we keep not getting them. We aren't even getting new lenses.

05-16-2016, 09:42 PM	#86
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by D1N0 Kenspo just said Ricoh will come with a mirrorless full frame system for Pentax on Photokina. (Photorumors.com are you reading this?) Originally posted by kenspo Haha, i did not ROTFL This is so much reality

05-16-2016, 09:56 PM	#87
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by monochrome What are the actual sales figures for Q? Curious minds want to know. All I can see is that the sales for fixed lens cameras are sill on a considerable decline path YOY: http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-201603_e.pdf No matter what returns the Q had for Pentax it is a declining user base worldwide. YOY for 2016 is projected to be 12.5% lower than 2015 for all non-phone digital cameras, with the compact segment taking the brunt of it. And 2015 was 18% down from 2014. The Japanese rankings have been so dismal the Q hasn't even shown up on them recently. The original concept was that a premium design, small sensor compact with the cachet of interchangeable lenses had a niche. Not really. None of the smaller sensor models has done particularly well. The Olympus PEN does OK but I haven't seen a ranking for the Q for (literally) years. The EOS M and Nikon's system haven't done all that well either. Remember the other concept was that these would be metal, custom colour bling cameras as well, with a whole order online and have it delivered to your dealer in multi-colour options. It was innovative, but very little market appetite. CIPA and BCN talk up the "step up" camera market compared to smartphones but so far consumers either buy very high-end (Sony RX, Ricoh GR, the new Fuji) or a larger sensor DSLR or mirrorless. People "step up" big, no compact sensor "small".

05-16-2016, 10:35 PM - 1 Like	#88
JPT Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,821	The Q's fortunes in Japan have been mostly depending on the price of the body and whether Ricoh was advertising. The original one didn't sell because it was priced too high to be an impulse purchase. The Q10 and Q7 did well because of the lower price and the TV ad campaign. The last Q-S1 has not been advertised on TV, and in fairness it isn't a very compelling camera over the Q7. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to weigh up the Q against mobile phones. People buy the Q because they find the idea of a really small camera appealing, either as photo enthusiasts out just regular people who think it's cute and fun. The Q marketing in Japan is all focused on the casual, fun aspect. The Q isn't a camera you buy with you head; it's a camera you buy with your heart. Q cameras are quite a common sight in Japan. I don't doubt that Ricoh could sell a successor camera of they wanted to invest in the development and marketing. The question is whether they want to be in that line of business or not. Personally, I think it's good for brand visibility.

05-16-2016, 10:49 PM	#89
hectorse New Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 21	I wish we could get a Q system camera with GOOD connectivity: 1. Sensor Size not important 2. 14MPs 3. Internal 16GB memory + SD card slot 4. WiFi, NFC, gps and Bluetooth 5. Facebook, instagram, youtube and flickr integration Exchangeable lenses are a big plus for this system, but it needs to be as convenient to use as a phone.

05-17-2016, 12:32 AM	#90
geomez Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Roanoke, Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,760	Originally posted by hectorse I wish we could get a Q system camera with GOOD connectivity: 1. Sensor Size not important 2. 14MPs 3. Internal 16GB memory + SD card slot 4. WiFi, NFC, gps and Bluetooth 5. Facebook, instagram, youtube and flickr integration Exchangeable lenses are a big plus for this system, but it needs to be as convenient to use as a phone. It already is as convenient as a phone if you want to conveniently take pictures. A camera will never be as good as a phone at internet and communication, and for the foreseeable future, a phone will never be as proficient at taking pictures as a good camera. Your list of wants sounds like you want a smartphone. Sensor size matters to most people that want cameras.