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07-10-2016, 06:20 AM   #376
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
You're joking aren't you?
You mean you want Pentax to make a camera with slower FPS &/or a shallower buffer ??
Pentax is slower than current average in full frames, but still there's the 6fps in crop mode. Overall K-1's still pretty acceptable. anything slower means going back. You can only go more than 4.4 fps & 17 frames with lesser buffer clearing time considering it's release year & competition.

---------- Post added 07-10-16 at 06:26 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I hope K-70 has the best AF in LV between Pentax cameras.
It definitely does & that's what makes the K-70 such an Interesting camera for Pentaxians.

It's a crop sensor camera (not even a flagship crop like K series) which actually beats the flagship FF K-1 hands down in a few fields i.e. Live view & video AF.

This in itself is a big thing.

07-10-2016, 06:26 AM   #377
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QuoteOriginally posted by anu l Quote
You mean you want Pentax to make a camera with slower FPS &/or a shallower buffer ??
Pentax is slower than current average in full frames, but still there's the 6fps in crop mode. Overall K-1's still pretty acceptable. anything slower means going back. You can only go more than 4.4 fps & 17 frames with lesser buffer clearing time considering it's release year & competition.
You cannot look at fps without taking mp-count into account . When choosing a full frame camera you have to make a choice between speed and detail.
07-10-2016, 06:37 AM   #378
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
You cannot look at fps without taking mp-count into account . When choosing a full frame camera you have to make a choice between speed and detail.
Which is why the frame rate of a K-1 doesn't bother most of us. We have a k-3 for fps. The K-1 is a landscape camera.

The expensive FF cameras with high frame rates are all over $5,000. That high frame rate and fast clearing buffer more than doubles the cost of the camera, even at 20 MP. Everyone wants pentax to increase their FF frame rate, without increasing the cost or reducing the file size. Canon can't do it, Nikon can't do it, but Pentax is supposed to be able to do it.
07-10-2016, 08:03 AM   #379
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
You cannot look at fps without taking mp-count into account . When choosing a full frame camera you have to make a choice between speed and detail.
You are right, & people shouldn't compare the frame rates of Crop sensor with Full frame. But my response was for this comment which talks about a FF with lower than 4.4 and a more shallow buffer.

QuoteOriginally posted by planteater Quote
I had talked myself into a K3 II until the K70 announcement. Now I'll have to wait.

Pentax could easily play a wild card and give us a 'consumer' FF - Polycarb body, less knobs, lower FPS, smaller buffer etc. It must have crossed their minds.
I think Pentax must make a higher priced camera (at say the D810's price point) with more FPS say 5 or 5.5 with a deeper buffer & much lesser clearing time adding it USB3 & more AF points better spread apart with improved AF-C, & let the K-1 be the 'consumer' FF camera @planteater has suggested. It makes sense since the pricing of K-1 is comparable to the mid range Full Frames from other manufacturers (Nikon D750).

07-10-2016, 09:34 AM   #380
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QuoteOriginally posted by anu l Quote
You are right, & people shouldn't compare the frame rates of Crop sensor with Full frame. But my response was for this comment which talks about a FF with lower than 4.4 and a more shallow buffer.



I think Pentax must make a higher priced camera (at say the D810's price point) with more FPS say 5 or 5.5 with a deeper buffer & much lesser clearing time adding it USB3 & more AF points better spread apart with improved AF-C, & let the K-1 be the 'consumer' FF camera @planteater has suggested. It makes sense since the pricing of K-1 is comparable to the mid range Full Frames from other manufacturers (Nikon D750).
We were talking about Full Frame cameras, the 1Dx at 14-16 FPS is a 20 MP camera. FULL FRAME.

The Nikon D810 is 5 FPS as opposed to the K-1's 4.4. You are quibbling about. .6 frames per second, snd neither is anywhere near fast.
You have to look at that the competition is. For almost everyone 4.4 FPS and $1000 cheaper trumps 5 FPS and a teeny tiny bit faster.

As for Pentax needing D750 etc., I question whether Petnax could make enough of those and sell them to run a production line. They've gone for the fat part of the market, people looking for great performance at a great price.

The skinny part of the market is cameras like the D740 or D500, people willing to pay extra for performance. At less than 5% market share, there is just no way Pentax has enough of those to support a production run. Pentax would do well to see if can increase market share with the K-1. If they can't introducing specialty cameras that go beyond "every man's" type of camera shouldn't even be in their fantasies.
07-10-2016, 10:28 AM   #381
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QuoteOriginally posted by planteater Quote

Pentax could easily play a wild card and give us a 'consumer' FF - Polycarb body, less knobs, lower FPS, smaller buffer etc.
The top of the K-1 is already polycarbonate.

07-10-2016, 11:39 AM   #382
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
We were talking about Full Frame cameras, the 1Dx at 14-16 FPS is a 20 MP camera. FULL FRAME.

The Nikon D810 is 5 FPS as opposed to the K-1's 4.4. You are quibbling about. .6 frames per second, snd neither is anywhere near fast.
You have to look at that the competition is. For almost everyone 4.4 FPS and $1000 cheaper trumps 5 FPS and a teeny tiny bit faster.

As for Pentax needing D750 etc., I question whether Petnax could make enough of those and sell them to run a production line. They've gone for the fat part of the market, people looking for great performance at a great price.

The skinny part of the market is cameras like the D740 or D500, people willing to pay extra for performance. At less than 5% market share, there is just no way Pentax has enough of those to support a production run. Pentax would do well to see if can increase market share with the K-1. If they can't introducing specialty cameras that go beyond "every man's" type of camera shouldn't even be in their fantasies.
I was considering the D750 & D810 comparison.
I wasn't talking about the D4s & 1Dx. They are for very specific purpose & price segment. My point was in relation to one of user's comments who said that we could have a scaled down K-1. I just said let the K-1 be the scaled down version, somewhat like the Nikon D750 & have a more improved version of K-1 with the price point of D810.

On the other hand, If Pentax want to make a lesser priced, scaled down version of K-1 then even that is doable, with a lower build quality & some bells & whistles removed, but don't go below K-1's burst speed & buffer size - this was my whole point.

that was my whole point.
07-10-2016, 01:28 PM - 4 Likes   #383
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Thank you very much for this very sensed contribution in the new Pentax K-70 entry level APS-C thread

07-10-2016, 02:15 PM   #384
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New grip design!!??
07-10-2016, 02:28 PM   #385
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QuoteOriginally posted by anu l Quote
On the other hand, If Pentax want to make a lesser priced, scaled down version of K-1 then even that is doable, with a lower build quality & some bells & whistles removed, but don't go below K-1's burst speed & buffer size - this was my whole point.
Could it compete with next-gen Canikons with some bells & whistles added?
07-10-2016, 06:16 PM   #386
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Thank you very much for this very sensed contribution in the new Pentax K-70 entry level APS-C thread
Indeed. What are they thinking?!
07-10-2016, 10:38 PM   #387
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I was thinking yesterday a bit, being owner of a K-S1 (entry level DSLR) and now also of K-3 II (definitely not an entry level DSLR) A few of us compared/hesitated between K-3 II and K-70 (advertised as entry level DSLR) and I'm getting a bit lost here. If I do compare K-S1 and K-3 II there's the obvious difference in basically each and every feature starting with the MP count, max shutter speed, size, weight, body material, resistance to weather, built in pop up flash vs Astrotracker and no cheap pop up flash (respectively) and the list of obvious differences just goes on...
Okay, there is no doubt that there is a significant difference between K-S1 and K-3 II and the current prices on the market also support this.
However, these days with pricing on K-3/K-3 II getting lower (as low as 700€ for a brand new unused body - although the RRP is still ~900€) and K-70 being somewhat close specced to K-3 with some convenient features such as articulated screen and high MP count plus pixel shift and so on (including some further improvements like KAF4 etc), the K-70 (on paper) looks as it's much closer to K-3 than to K-S1 and tells me that the "entry level" just made a couple of steps towards the upper segment of performance. The K-S1 was announced at approximately the same price tag at the time as K-70 now but because of some of of it's odd design features it got trashed by reviewers and now you can get one (brand new) for 270€ (body only) or 300€ (with the 18-55mm DAL kit lens)... So, if I compare the pricing level (on the real market) between the entry level K-S1 and K-3 these days, the price difference is quite noticeable and both seem to be priced according to their positions based on features, quality, capabilities etc. But, the K-70 is in fact priced so (for now) that it's quite far away from the K-S1 (makes some sense as K-S1 is already out of production by now) and less far from K-50/K-S2 (still far enough to make a noticeable difference as these can be found for 400/500€ new) and I am kind of getting confused a bit. (by the time you read all this, you also must be confused what this is all about? )
Well... What I am not sure anymore about is what exactly makes a camera (body) entry level (what sort of features it has to have or shouldn't have) to consider it an entry level DSLR? By all means, I'm all lost as I'm not sure if the bar was raised (meaning Pentax will never-ever-ever-again make a camera that would even remotely fit into the same "entry level DSLR" basket with K-S1) or the term "entry level" these days doesn't mean the same thing what it meant a few years ago? On the Pentax (actually Ricoh now) web site there are only four cameras remaining in the "K Series" and I didn't manage to find any reference to the "entry level" definition? So, someone else, somewhere else invented the term to describe the lower priced DSLRs lacking advanced features as "entry level"? or maybe just the lowest priced models become ones as there's nothing cheaper? Help me here...
07-11-2016, 06:50 AM - 1 Like   #388
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Flash as a fill light is just one possible use. A flash allows one to 'shape' the light in the shot, so is not necessarily made redundant just because your camera now has better ISO performance.
I'm a bit late in the discussion, but you're perfectly right. I'm using the wireless control quite often with my actual camera. But for me, the real problem isn't that Pentax removed this feature in the K-70 (and KS-2, K-3ii, K1...). It's that no satisfying alternatives are proposed to replace it. It would not be a big problem if, let say, Pentax would have lauched at the same time a cheap flash controller, or, even better, a P-TTL RF flash trigger. People would not have complained, particularly if the second option was available! But now, people who are used to work with off camera flash are left in the dark (pun intended). You can't ask people to spend an additional 400$ on a 360 flash just to be used as a flash controller and replace a feature they had for years supported natively in body !

For people needing this functionality, it's certainly something to think about. Because right now using flashes off camera with Pentax bodies is becoming a major issue for many users, and not only a K-70 downside. I hope Pentax will address this problem soon. It shouldn't be that coslty to make a basic flash controller, add the functionality to the cheap AF-2xx line or develop a RF trigger...

It's not like if flash trigerring is some a niche or exotic feature. In 2016, it's a basic DSLR functionality for which you expect to have many options, no matter the manufacturer or price of the body.
07-11-2016, 07:06 AM   #389
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QuoteOriginally posted by CarlJF Quote
It's not like if flash trigerring is some a niche or exotic feature. In 2016, it's a basic DSLR functionality for which you expect to have many options, no matter the manufacturer or price of the body.
Well, that's where you and many others differ. Would there even be 1% of Pentax users using flash? Look through the forum images and see how many incorporate flash. Or don't... while I understand that off camera flash maybe a thing for advanced users, others like myself haven't bought a flash in 20 years, and still have our optical triggered slaves. Which I've used one in the last 20 years, helping friend out with some product photos for their pyramid scheme clothing sales franchise.

I would expect that, for specialty flash requirements, one would expect to pay for them by buying a more advanced body. The K-70 is kind of like Pentax entry model. Look at the K-70 as a way of getting the flippy screen and Pixel Shift, without paying for a K-3 II or K-1 at least once the price drops. And the demonstrations of Pixel shift are somewhat inconsistent as to the value of the process. It seems to be pretty hit and miss.

For those of us who aren't caught up in the notions of "uses my lenses the way they were designed to be used," or aren't sold on the notion that more resolution will make our images more desirable, both of which are highly debatable, 24 MP and a flippy screen for macro and low angle images,this camera has a lot to offer. My big complaint with it is the 11 selectable focus points. I need to see the improved tracking feature work with the 11 point system, as opposed to the 27 point system I'm used to. After all, I think its it's the 77 point exposure grid that's used for tracking. What I'm interesting in is if the 11 point can do as good or maybe even a better job. I've never been convinced that one needs lots o AF points for very good camera function. DO more AF points slow down the process by analyzing a lot more information to get the same result? No one knows.

Last edited by normhead; 07-11-2016 at 07:45 AM.
07-11-2016, 07:52 AM - 1 Like   #390
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I'm sorry Norm, but I disagree with you on the niche aspect. I'm not saying that everyone use flash, and even those that use it don't do it on each shot. But it's certainly more than 1%... The flash subsection of PF actually has 30K posts in it, making it one of the most active technicaly oriented subsection... And if you want examples, just take a look at the "post your picture" section, you will easily find pictures, on a daily basis, on which flash or flashes were obviously used, not even talking about the others where flash is more subtle and not that obvious... For me, it's certainly not what I have in mind for a niche technique...

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I would expect that, has specialty flash requirements, one would expect to pay for them by buying a more advanced body.
And this is exactly the problem, even if someone is willing to pay more to have the functionality, satisfying options simply doesn't exist... This is exaclty what I meant above by saying that people needing the functionality would be happy to pay for a set of decent RF P-TTL trigger if the body doesn't provide the functionality, but Pentax just doesn't make one, and buying a more advanced body doesn't change this reality... Okay, there's an obcure chinese maker selling one by mail order, but it's a far cry from a first party supported solution. And if I'm buying a more advanced body, I'm also expecting to have something more advanced than using an optical flash for controller, particularly for 400$...

Control from the pop up certainly wasn't the best or greatest of options, but at least it was there. And now that this functionality seems to be gone for good, since no camera in production actually have it, the options are thinner than ever. The problem isn't that the K-70 doesn't support wireless control from the pop up, it is that Pentax doesn't provide a satisfying solution at a faire price to replace this function, even if one is willing to pay for it.

Last edited by CarlJF; 07-11-2016 at 08:08 AM.
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