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06-09-2016, 06:41 AM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
Technically and hypothetically its possible to have CDAF detection on the same chip as the PDAF chip, but in practice I don't think that is done by any company yet...
DPReview says various Sony cameras, including even the A6000, do have hybrid AF; I believe that is the method of the future.
QuoteQuote:
the most notable feature on the a6000 is its updated Hybrid AF system. Where the NEX-6 had 99 phase-detect points covering approximately 50% of the sensor, the a6000 has 179, with 92% coverage - by far the most comprehensive of any contemporary camera.
Sony a6000 Review: Digital Photography Review


06-09-2016, 06:44 AM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
Yes I believe that if KAF4 will be the standard lenses in the future, it will be painful. One of the main reasons that I chose Pentax was the continuity of the K-mount. Having a lens that can be mounted on older cameras but won't function like other lenses is still deviating from the original design. It's like killing it in a different way. I guess if this is the way it goes to make Pentax lenses faster, maybe we should bite the bullet. But again, it's painful and a very bitter pill.
Since 1957, almost 60 years ago, it has always been that way in Asahi Optical, then Pentax land: older lenses can be used on newer cameras but not the other way around.
  • M37 lenses work on M42 and K cameras but M37 cameras don't work with M42 and K lenses
  • M42 lenses work on K cameras but M42 cameras don't work with K lenses
  • Lenses with aperture ring work on newer cameras but older cameras don't work with lenses without aperture ring
  • KAF3 lenses don't work with cameras older than K10D
  • KAF4 lenses won't work with cameras older than K-S1
06-09-2016, 06:52 AM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
Personally, I think the decision to go to KAF4 makes sense, but the one to not support a flagship model from 2.5 years ago is painful. Even assuming the best case scenario of this being a hardware issue, I wish Ricoh would do something to extend a hand to buyers of this flagship (or perhaps even older models). What this could consist of depends entirely on how they handle future lens releases. If, for the next 1.5 years (until the K-3 is 4 years old), most new lens released still have the aperture lever (and thus can be used on the K-3, and even older bodies), then everything is fine and nothing more is needed. But if every new lens from now on will be KAF4 only, then I would like some kind of rebate program for body upgrades. (For this, I personally think the line should be at the K-5 II(s), but even if it's just for K-3 owners, that would still be pretty good.)
I agree. When I bought the K-3 I certainly didn't expect this flagship to become obsolete with new lenses. I cannot afford to continue upgrading bodies, when they become obsolete in such a short time. Pentax will hurt many K-3 owners by leaving them out of using new lenses.
06-09-2016, 06:53 AM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Other manufacturers lenses from Samyang lack automation. This is due to the electronic aperture. However with their announcement of autofocus lenses this may have changed.
UncleVanya: You're not forgetting that the K-70 can still drive a traditional mechanical aperture lever, right?

It seems like you're concerned that a more modern lens isn't using the same architecture that an older lens uses, forgetting that the cameras on sale now from Pentax can still use both. At some point there will probably be a consumer oriented DSLR from Pentax that lacks the ability to mechanically drive the lever; I don't think we'll see that camera for a long time, and there will be plenty of run-up to it. My only fear is that there's a chance of this aperture setup being less reliable than what we've had for years, kind of like SDM failures vs. traditional screw drive AF.

06-09-2016, 06:55 AM - 1 Like   #170
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I have noticed some difference. I made a comparison, information from Ricoh Japan Website.
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06-09-2016, 07:02 AM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by Easeman Quote
I have noticed some difference. I made a comparison, information from Ricoh Japan Website.
Note that as per the lens announcement for the new 55-300, the K-S1, K-S2, K-3 II and K1 will get firmware updates for KAF4 lens compatibility.
06-09-2016, 07:03 AM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Since 1957, almost 60 years ago, it has always been that way in Asahi Optical, then Pentax land: older lenses can be used on newer cameras but not the other way around.
It would be useful for Ricoh to release a statement about what the new KAF4 means for users, and it's strategy for the mount. This has all come as a surprise. KAF4 lenses did not feature on any previously released lens road map.

---------- Post added 2016-06-10 at 12:09 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Easeman Quote
I have noticed some difference. I made a comparison, information from Ricoh Japan Website.
Your diagram suggests KAF4 lenses won't work on K-1. I don't think that's right. Firmware update is in the works.

Last edited by rawr; 06-09-2016 at 07:10 AM.
06-09-2016, 07:09 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
Note that as per the lens announcement for the new 55-300, the K-S1, K-S2, K-3 II and K1 will get firmware updates for KAF4 lens compatibility.
Yes, I saw that information. And the information in my image was directly copied from Ricoh Website DSLR model specification page. Still, I don't know the change from KAF3 to KAF4 is related to software or hardware.

---------- Post added 2016-06-09 at 22:11 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
It would be useful for Ricoh to release a statement about what the new KAF4 means for users, and it's strategy for the mount. This has all come as a surprise. KAF4 lenses did not feature on any previously released lens road map.

---------- Post added 2016-06-10 at 12:09 AM ----------



Your diagram suggests KAF4 lenses won't work on K-1. I don't think that's right.
The information was copied from model spec page (Specifications | PENTAX K-1 | RICOH IMAGING).
When they announced K-1, there was no information about KAF4.

06-09-2016, 07:14 AM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by Easeman Quote
When they announced K-1, there was no information about KAF4.
Still, I think you should update your figure, because it is unnecessarily alarming for K-1, K-3 II, K-S2 and K-S1 owners. It should be alarming for K-3 owners though...
06-09-2016, 07:17 AM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by Easeman Quote
I have noticed some difference. I made a comparison, information from Ricoh Japan Website.
You'll notice that they don't claim K or M42 compatibility for any of those cameras, so they don't seem to be quite as wed to up-and-down the line compatibility as some of us are.
06-09-2016, 07:24 AM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
It should be alarming for K-3 owners though...
Damn right.
If there are great new lenses planned that are KAF4 only, my K-3 will want to be able to work with them.
06-09-2016, 07:25 AM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
If so the PLM technology provides for smoother and more silent focus but not quicker.
but in the press release they said:

"By driving this focusing lens using a pulse motor (PLM), which is directly linked to a lead screw, this zoom lens also operates faster — approximately 8.3 times at its wide-angle end and approximately 1.7 times at its telephoto end —and quieter than its predecessor.

Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/articles/pentax-news/hd-pentax-da-55-300mm-f45-63-ed-plm-wr-re-announced.html#ixzz4B5m7prz4"

I think the PLM technology will make things a lot faster, the older 55-300 was criticised for slow AF speeds & needed to be complemented with quick shift to get the shot quickly.

If with all this technology & loss of light it does not improve on AF speed then I dont think it's worth it.
06-09-2016, 07:29 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
You absolutely have no evidence to support that statement. The truth is people outside of Ricoh have no idea. It might require hardware, or it might be totally doable in software.
Of course I do! I was not referring to this camera, but to firmware in general. Firmware requires hardware to operate, that is a basic truth. If the hardware needed is not present then the firmware cannot work, simple. Please don't leap to conclusions, of course no one outside of Ricoh knows the truth here.
06-09-2016, 07:29 AM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by csa Quote
I agree. When I bought the K-3 I certainly didn't expect this flagship to become obsolete with new lenses. I cannot afford to continue upgrading bodies, when they become obsolete in such a short time. Pentax will hurt many K-3 owners by leaving them out of using new lenses.
This is the first lens without an aperture coupling, it doesn't mean that all new lenses from now on will lack one. Probably just those aimed at video, for which the k-3 isn't much good anyway.
06-09-2016, 07:30 AM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
UncleVanya: You're not forgetting that the K-70 can still drive a traditional mechanical aperture lever, right?

It seems like you're concerned that a more modern lens isn't using the same architecture that an older lens uses, forgetting that the cameras on sale now from Pentax can still use both. At some point there will probably be a consumer oriented DSLR from Pentax that lacks the ability to mechanically drive the lever; I don't think we'll see that camera for a long time, and there will be plenty of run-up to it. My only fear is that there's a chance of this aperture setup being less reliable than what we've had for years, kind of like SDM failures vs. traditional screw drive AF.
No. I'm not. I'm thinking that future bodies will drop the lever at the low end. But I'm also thinking that this complicates Samyangs future line up for Pentax. Which mount do they work on? Which AF system? Is it worth messing with Pentax further etc. All of this may be a foolish worry over nothing.
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